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about 1 year ago Syntax Podcast

AI Coding Roadmap for Newbies (And Skeptics)

Wes Bos

Wes Bos Host

Scott Tolinski

Scott Tolinski Host

Topic 0 00:00

Transcript

Scott Tolinski

to go off and and do other work, whether that is interfacing even with, like, a full on other application or another service, another server somewhere.

Scott Tolinski

Each line represents a JSON object,

Wes Bos

If you are able to run them locally, you you don't have to pay for them. They're they're any editor using will have some sort of AI plug in for it. And then as you're typing, it will try to autocomplete it. That can be a little bit frustrating at at times, but I also find myself Wes it's turned off, I'm almost at a point now where I'm just like or, like, you're writing code somewhere that it doesn't have that, like a text area or or, like, even, like, on Twitter, and you're just like,

Scott Tolinski

I have a little device that takes in RCA in and does HDMI out,

Wes Bos

accept everything.

Scott Tolinski

use tech that you already know because using the CLI.

Wes Bos

And this works for chat. You should say that. It's basically like a visual chat that will It's a visual chat. The UI Even, like, the Syntax website, we have AI stuff on it. This was before just on a tripod, and it's that's that's decent

Scott Tolinski

able to access the up to date documentation line separated

Wes Bos

And especially for

Scott Tolinski

we are all about making But if you really wanted maybe, like, a back and forth with some Node, iterating on a code, copying and pasting your code into chat g p t, and then working with it and then copying it back into your app, for a while was, like, the best way to work in AI before we we got a lot of these newer tools. So, this is certainly still something you can do if you're the type of person who's like, I really wanna

Wes Bos

array of of data, me and Scott were the Sanity, I think the quality of cloud code is significantly better. Yes. I think that I think that's why a lot of people like it. And you can also build cloud code into other tooling because it's at the end of the day, it's just a NPM script that you can go go ahead and run. But quite honestly, I much prefer the IDE experience that you can use to code the AI. We talked we said the OpenAI Scott's thoughts on Solviva. Actually, it does actually, it does know what it is now.

Scott Tolinski

the docs in, like, every message.

Wes Bos

you want to be

Scott Tolinski

Also, another tip I have is

Wes Bos

as it's coming in.

Wes Bos

good. And Next up is, multimodel. So if you wanna build something, compatible with it, which is really nice because you can always just swap out models, and you don't have to, like you're not hard coding your app against using just OpenAI models. But, yeah, it's that's largely solved.

Scott Tolinski

more popular with maybe not

Wes Bos

point in time

Scott Tolinski

dial in on this. Like, I wanna copy and pay. I wanna work back and forth with this in a chat way. But at the end of the day, it's not a text editor. You're not getting into there to modify the code. You're doing a lot of copying and pasting and trying a lot of back and forth, and it is really super inefficient compared to most of the newer styles of working with this stuff. So I probably wouldn't recommend this. If you're talking to me and you're new to this stuff, I would say you can either start with the ghost text if you're scared of it.

Wes Bos

am very careful to write these off because I think that they are very good. And, also, if you were to give me a tool like this for something that I was not good at, like, different AI stuff. So you're able to, like like, ingest a whole bunch of documents and then send them off to one thing. So

Scott Tolinski

we take in the the

Wes Bos

a specific,

Scott Tolinski

It is crazy good. But there's also a a Sanity MCP server that, again, allows you to interact with your Sentry if it's generating Yeah. And and I will say that this is the lowest barrier to entry one and, honestly, probably the least intimidating

Wes Bos

I need that. You know? Where where's the the autocomplete for it?

Scott Tolinski

specifically because I do like to be constantly trying it, constantly seeing it in action, and then go through the code and then choose to accept it or not.

Wes Bos

your data and then find the pieces of data that make sense, and then you give it to the AM model. Say, given the following context, please answer the question, what does Scott think about cell five? And then you might give three or four different pieces of the the transcript.

Scott Tolinski

I have completely changed how I do that in the past month, so

Wes Bos

it's certainly a lot more UI Have have you been seeing that yourself? Pnpm. I know I know JSON c is with JSON with comments.

Scott Tolinski

to explore

Wes Bos

will allow you to parse the data. So

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. It's bizarre.

Wes Bos

augmented generation.

Wes Bos

Right. If Wes wanted to feed it, I built something that it took, I don't know,

Scott Tolinski

I don't know how you feel about Hugging Face. I love I love it. It is

Wes Bos

Build some fun stuff. So build some Build some fun stuff. Pokemon

Scott Tolinski

you're gonna know a lot better and faster if it's it's code you actually want to have, if it's code that you know and understand. So

Wes Bos

You Node? Like, if you wanna be able to painting.

Scott Tolinski

if you're getting started with these things, especially for the first or second time or you failed at them in the past,

Wes Bos

The AI model doesn't know about You can get pretty complex with it. But, essentially, what you do is you say, I'm searching for this. These are the things that are these are, like, the pieces of the transcript that are close enough to it.

Wes Bos

anyone who maybe has has put it off for a while. You're or you're relatively new to coding Yes. In JavaScript runtimes. Meaning that if you're in Node. Js, you're in Deno,

Scott Tolinski

intimidating.

Wes Bos

with AI to an external service.

Wes Bos

a lot there's a lot of benefits of of it as well, and I do think that this industry is certainly changing quite a bit.

Wes Bos

compatible

Scott Tolinski

figure out the whys and hows. So that way, when you wanna build something,

Wes Bos

image segmentation.

Wes Bos

these AI AIs are best at returning either JSON or markdown, but you can ask for it to return

Scott Tolinski

that you want to actually use because you know the code. You know what good code looks like. And, therefore, if you're choosing to accept or bring in code into your code Bos from AI,

Wes Bos

in quite a while Wes I I feel like I can get away with just using the the previous libraries we talked about. That's what I'm saying too. Yeah. And there's also transformers.

Wes Bos

you wanna work with streaming, and then, also, you wanna integrate it with, like, React or Vue or Svelte,

Scott Tolinski

connect with something else via your chat or via your AI, it can use MCP Can we say that micro USB was the worst? The worst. Wes all connectors? It's got those little prongs in it. So every time you pull it in or out, it either stays in or, like, comes right out immediately.

Wes Bos

synchronous workflows.

Wes Bos

focused

Scott Tolinski

video quality. Hey, man. It looks great. And,

Wes Bos

is usually not an issue,

Scott Tolinski

So, Deno, man. It's been and I I actually just signed up for the Perplexity

Wes Bos

Anytime it's funny. A lot of the Cloudflare examples use the Vercel 6,000 JS it really that good? Just turn off all that garbage and and build something. Do that. If that if that's what scratches they want it to build what they want. Right? So Yeah. Those are pretty interesting things.

Wes Bos

infrastructure, If you're going to be sending it to an AI and getting the data back, custom prompts JS probably the the most table stakes. Right? When you build something,

Scott Tolinski

Node. Like, if you're working with,

Wes Bos

high resolution screenshots Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll have to give that a shot.

Wes Bos

So we're saying for newbies, but we're also saying for skeptics. Wes I I know there's probably quite a few people,

Scott Tolinski

you know, it made more sense to either do the autocomplete.

Scott Tolinski

it it you can tell if it's generating code glow up, I Wes, you could say. It's very purple looking now. So Langchain allows you to A lot of these tools are popular within the

Wes Bos

that, like, the the terminal is the UI for for building software.

Scott Tolinski

buy it as being the best way to work compared to the Node approach.

Scott Tolinski

with code and in general.

Wes Bos

provide all of that.

Wes Bos

you fire up an IDE editor and I highly recommend you check that out. Yes.

Wes Bos

similar images work.

Scott Tolinski

I soldered it back on.

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. And and the way a lot of these things, especially, like, Cursor works now, is that, like, once it makes the changes, those changes are ready for you to use

Wes Bos

Just start with some calls back and forth in a Node. Js script. And then as you say, this is kind of annoying that I have to do this a thousand times. I wish there was something that made it a little bit easier, then check out the AI SDK, the Cloudflare agents. And then there's there's also, like, Langchain as well, which will,

Scott Tolinski

solderer. So I I just wanted to to, you know, toot my own horn here for a second.

Wes Bos

for you, which is I honestly quite like that a lot better than the, like, cursor built in documentation. I've never felt that you're not necessarily just sitting there It's kind of like a middleman, so that way you don't have to use the OpenAI library and the anthropic library or do just fetch calls for everything. Right? Yeah. And I I think it it it goes a little bit further than that as well. Like, it will give you Right. UI components for that will help you streaming, and

Scott Tolinski

docs It's basically,

Wes Bos

portion of this episode, which is

Scott Tolinski

if you leave the word AI out of it, and I were to tell you JS a developer that you could build something that detected a way to build things very quickly

Wes Bos

nice. It's it's a a feature that I really like about all of these AI agents because you otherwise, if it if it tries to do too much or you're a bit, like, spooked something for interacting with the providers and providing UI.

Scott Tolinski

toss it out. I have a directory on my computer

Scott Tolinski

hallucinations about it. Yes.

Wes Bos

love that. But, yeah, just man, we understand, but this is this is kind of exciting stuff. And you can build some really neat stuff. I

Scott Tolinski

wow. They changed their on colon click to on click, and, like,

Wes Bos

for building in, to some degree, hopefully, all of us to some degree, where you're kinda sitting there being like,

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. It it is basically just a library for interacting with the AI SDKs themselves.

Scott Tolinski

I still as much as I use cloud code, I still Yep.

Scott Tolinski

understand, and gain access to understanding your your code Bos and errors in your entire, Yeah. And a handful of these tools all work very similarly.

Wes Bos

took a photo. And then it sent that off to OpenAI and said, describe this image as if you were Ricky from Trailer Park Boys.

Wes Bos

Right? If that is your, like, thing, oh, it sucks at x, y, and z Yeah. The answer to that is

Scott Tolinski

Vercel. And I gotta say, CJ just released an incredible video

Wes Bos

It's kind of the other way around JS is you or, I guess, the AI is writing the Node. But

Scott Tolinski

Seer is a new product from Century that allows you to debug your code and find out exactly why it sucks with AI. It's amazing. Yeah. It's pretty authentic. It it figures it out for you.

Wes Bos

very likely Scott,

Scott Tolinski

giving a deep

Wes Bos

how much does this cost. You know? There's models out there that are fast and cheap, but not very good. There's models out there that are slow and expensive, but very oh, okay. Well, scrap it. It's not very good. But the answer almost always is, yeah, there should be some sort of tool the, Figma MCP server.

Scott Tolinski

There's also Cloudflare agents, which I have not used yet. This is one there's folks, if if you're feeling overwhelmed,

Wes Bos

And lang chain is to do it, and you want a very specific model that's, like, very good at doing docs that don't have, like, a single page that you can grab them, a lot of documentation now will will publish their documentation either as a single markdown file or, like, l l m's dot t x t or as, like, multiple markdown files, which you can easily gather up and and inject as you need it. But I I've had some documentation for very small libraries where

Scott Tolinski

in the browser from Dia with your code. You're pasting back and forth. You're referencing other tabs.

Scott Tolinski

Hey, Wes. I did some soldering, So another popular one would be Lovable in this space. Lovable has pretty much the exact same landing page as v v zero in many ways. Like, you Sanity tell just by looking at the landing pages, like, kind of what the vibe is for some of these things.

Scott Tolinski

explore a little bit, transformers, JS, and via Hugging Face, This is one of those things to me that if I was a newbie or a skeptic coming into AI and I were to go to Hugging Face, I would feel intimidated by it because there's

Wes Bos

Yeah. So transformers.

Scott Tolinski

practical, you you have an exact idea of how the pieces fit together.

Wes Bos

that,

Scott Tolinski

JS a great way to do so. I I think that, like you mentioned, all those things that you you you said are are a great way to to get your hands dirty with some interesting,

Wes Bos

search a TypeScript toolkit and then you can find items that are closer to it. So what you would do is you would

Scott Tolinski

especially since well, I've used it in the past, but I have not used it since their website has undergone a major

Wes Bos

prompting,

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. I Node it's it's definitely great for that.

Wes Bos

a a toolkit for for doing that as well. I haven't found my there's a there's a JavaScript version and a Python version, which is really nice, but I haven't found myself needing persist state if you wanna, like, store stuff in a database or you wanna have long running tasks, if you wanna query the web, you wanna have, You know? Yeah. Or you or you just wanna be able to run it locally because you don't you don't wanna,

Scott Tolinski

in Cursor, the editor, in the settings, you can attach, from different models to, Twitter thread boys

Wes Bos

birds given,

Scott Tolinski

hey, man. You know, that stuff's just gonna get lost to time if I don't.

Wes Bos

So you might take an image, convert it to an embedding,

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. JSON l is basically

Wes Bos

pretty dirt cheap as well is you'll get a very good understanding of

Scott Tolinski

using Vercel,

Wes Bos

in what episode did Scott do x, y, and z, or what are Scott's thoughts on Svelte five? about how much it's it's done, then when you want to prompt a model with custom information, I agree. I agree.

Wes Bos

better in JSON JS versus TOML is is part of the reason why they did that.

Wes Bos

on on these CLI agents themselves, coding with AI was was that. You're just copy pasting it into CheckatGPT and copy pasting it out and, like, no. That's slow that's slow as hell. And the I I wouldn't wanna do that either.

Wes Bos

very specific models that are for specific tasks. Mhmm. And

Scott Tolinski

You Node, we mentioned that there's all these, like, fun and interesting things.

Wes Bos

you you give it an initial system prompt,

Scott Tolinski

AI, your edge, if that's what scratches You you can integrate these things into your application with transformers. Js, or you can just bounce around hugging face and give some of them a try to see if they are the type of thing you wanna use.

Wes Bos

natural language processing, vision depth estimation, on Granted, but it was just not working. Right? And and the pings were were decent. So I switched to my LTE cell phone,

Scott Tolinski

just a a JavaScript object on a line, you could have just another JavaScript on an object without a line without having that. Yeah.

Scott Tolinski

as an interface

Wes Bos

And if you have stuff in there that needs to be parsed, most likely markdown or JSON,

Scott Tolinski

you need to explore your curiosity

Wes Bos

into consideration. Because sometimes you ask it questions, and I'm like, no. I don't want your your I don't want your idea to be slanted based on the code I've written. I want you to just give me an idea of what you think in general. So if if I'm looking at how CSS features work or how to best approach something, I'll I'll paste it in. But I put this in here because, at at least, maybe even three or four months ago, it seemed like a lot of people thought that There is Node from OpenAI.

Scott Tolinski

and to, like, a keyword, essentially, like Svelte five docs, and you're pasting in either a link to the docs page or the l l m's dot t x t file, which we'll talk about. And with that, you are

Wes Bos

is really

Scott Tolinski

MCP is the is a a great example. So Sanity, as Century .io, is the perfect place to track all of your bugs to fix them.

Wes Bos

probably myself included

Scott Tolinski

yeah, happy you're out there at the cabin. That's a great time of year for doing that kinda thing. Right? So,

Wes Bos

all of the different models that are out there, streaming, embedding, rag, all those words that you're gonna be hearing about. What's up? My name is Wes. I'm at the cottage right now, and I forgot my nice camera. So this is actually not not bad, though. This is my iPhone 13 each of your episode transcripts into into embeddings or you you convert, like, three or four sentences at once into embeddings.

Wes Bos

screenshots from an image and fed it through it and and tried to figure out which one had the largest smile in or which one had the most scared face in and filter it on. Like, that would cost I feel like in order for you to get

Scott Tolinski

And, like, once you get ESLint, oh, Svelte is now releasing,

Wes Bos

AI SDK and you can say, you are an expert at, chain together,

Scott Tolinski

And I think that is an important, I do think that if you're the type of person sitting on the sidelines and saying, I don't need that stuff, it's just scratch. It's just exploration.

Wes Bos

a lot of money to send 3,000

Scott Tolinski

Please, for real, actually use these docs these times. I'm begging you. I've given you the docs. You have the docs. You can look at them. You've indexed them. Just use them, please.

Wes Bos

SDK Js allows you to use Yeah. It sucked for sure. Probably, it goes lightning as the very lowest of all. Yes.

Wes Bos

And what agent mode will do is you type into the box, add a component that does x, y, and z, and update the data bay database, I use I use the Eleven Labs one to create sound effects for my my Captcha one. You know? And I'm sure And

Scott Tolinski

For sure. And I gotta say, Wes,

Wes Bos

you were able to or the OpenAI

Scott Tolinski

Oh, I have this library, and I have this library. They're in two different tabs. I can pop open a little chat on the one and say, hey. If I were to integrate it with this other service here in this other tab, how might I do that? Here's some of my Node, and it's, like, so stinking good for that.

Wes Bos

waiting for it to complete JS you're firing off three or four of them, and they all work Right. In in parallel. But you need to first convert your data to embeddings.

Wes Bos

If you're not using an OpenAI

Scott Tolinski

And it definitely is easier to talk to right now.

Wes Bos

Let's move into

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. Totally

Wes Bos

sit there, and wait for the entire thing to come back. So what you have to do is you have to start They provide a whole bunch of of tools Figma components to Tailwind code, like, pixel perfectly. And he got pretty far

Scott Tolinski

I'm almost entirely using

Wes Bos

not be able to talk to each other, and the video was glitching out. And I was doing I'm on Starlink, and I was getting, like like, a 100, a 120 megabits down. I was getting about 10 to 12 up, which is contacts, prompting,

Scott Tolinski

AI is really good at a specific era of specific tools.

Wes Bos

you wanna try some really neat stuff just locally or doing it entirely in the browser, that's kind of a fun way to do it as well. Yeah. Totally. Let's talk real quick about some libs, added to it via probably via MCP generating the, just know that, whatever editor you're using. So, obviously, Versus Code, Windsurf, and Cursor, probably the big three right now, but where you have a full blown GUI, and you can click on things. You can roll things back. You can accept things.

Scott Tolinski

And the the branding on a lot of them is really like,

Wes Bos

AI SDK, which should tell you that it's not just for posting on Vercel if if Cloudflare is using it. Yeah. The, Cloudflare agents one is a little SDK that will allow you to, Yeah. The Cloudflare agent stuff is as writing code for AI, meaning that you, like, use the libraries as part of your application.

Wes Bos

prompting and going back and forth, which is is really cool, quite honestly. And and, also, Windsurf has this feature built in as well. Right? Because and they will allow you to bring more contacts, more tools format that you want has has pretty much been solved.

Wes Bos

The whole AI world is The agents SDK is more of a

Scott Tolinski

you know, an idea in general. And you say, I wonder if I can do this and this and this. You start connecting these things, and it's going to help you really

Wes Bos

you can obviously string these things together and then throw MCP into into the mix. And before you know it, you got Ricky from Trailer Park Boys, like, fixing your Sanity bugs or something hilarious like that.

Wes Bos

research and reference where I don't want it to take my entire the different models that are out there, streaming text versus not, embedding, what the warp called rag is. So if you build something that includes use terminal UIs Hey. Even even Figma,

Scott Tolinski

Comet browser beta JS well. So I think we're gonna start seeing agentic browsers

Wes Bos

are more going towards warp and, like, components and whatnot, they're going towards these tools.

Scott Tolinski

more and more. Cool.

Wes Bos

I was watching Adam Woth, and he was trying to figure out how to

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. Yeah. I've been like I mentioned, I've been using MCP

Wes Bos

probably text is is the most common way you're gonna be getting responses, but dip into to the different models. Right? There's models out there that will it it's kind of like if you wanna build a chat app or you wanna, like, build common stuff and be able to interact with all these different AI providers.

Scott Tolinski

or you're having to

Wes Bos

local AI models level thing. So if you wanna schedule tasks and persist state and

Scott Tolinski

audience. So just, like you said, I should say,

Wes Bos

it's, like, thirty, forty pages, and I just hadn't found a good way

Scott Tolinski

I haven't used it,

Wes Bos

I have the same thing as well. Maybe we'll talk about that. So, like, the the third thing here is is CLI agents. So instead of asking Cursor And then all the way up to, like, you what? USB c, although they got their own problems on the top. Lightning decided that a wafer was the best design of a Vercel wafer that could just snap off at any time.

Scott Tolinski

Have you solved the getting data back piece? Like, I need the data back in this specific format. I understand that there's OpenAI functions and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. The being able to get data back in the

Wes Bos

all of these features let's go each of these features one by one and sort of talk about them one. First one is just like custom prompting. Right? You you wanna build an application, decline the changes or roll back your code to a certain which we should say almost all of them Yarn, you use the OpenAI Wes, and you can use it with, obviously, OpenAI, but you can also use it with with Claude and Gemini and, like, pretty much all of the other services have been you need to basically Peace.

Scott Tolinski

explainer on actually building with MCP. We've done episodes on MCP here, some very recently as well. So MCP is largely a means of using AI to

Wes Bos

Yeah.

Scott Tolinski

of some regard inside of our text editor, and that ghost text popping in there shows you what it's gonna be. You can choose to just toss it in there or not. So for me, this is like, if we're talking dollar signs in terms of intimidation factor, this is this is like a $1 sign. It pops in there. You can choose to accept it or not. And, I I I think that is a relatively easy way to get get going with working with AI and and not have it not feel super icky. Right? I know there's lots of people who don't even like autocomplete. Like, not even like, AISI, people like people don't like autocomplete at all. So if that's you, maybe you wanna check out, in the browser. Before you accept. Yeah. Before you accept. Without without you having to commit to those changes, you can actually try that stuff out. You can see what it looks like. You can see what it feels like. Beyond just having to go through the code, you can see really quickly if it did the job by looking at the the end result and trying it out, which is, one of the things I I feel like I've had a harder time with some of the CLI agent platforms. I'm interested to get your take on that. But that's the one reason I tend to reach for the IDE chat first and foremost as my main means of working with AI currently, I built a app with AI, and now it makes me $5 a month crowd,

Wes Bos

on there as well. So the, the Vercel AI SDK, well, that's more of like, for for times when you do wanna sit there and and and do it, I don't like that interface at all. If I hit the wrong key, the whole thing quit.

Wes Bos

Alright. Let's get on into it.

Wes Bos

I I wonder if partially the the AI being able to modify and generate those things

Scott Tolinski

figure out where the lines are or where the new objects are or where the new rows are, whatever. That makes the process of streaming data in front just way more complex and obnoxious. So for sure. Let's talk about embeddings

Wes Bos

That's all I got. Alright. Thanks for tuning in. We will catch you later. Peace.

Scott Tolinski

feature that I think some of us lose because we we really like version

Wes Bos

Welcome to Syntax. Today, we got an episode for you on an AI coding Node map for

Scott Tolinski

I I I think

Wes Bos

Wes you're you're building an AI application.

Wes Bos

is probably your your one of your first interactions with talking back and forth with these different models out there.

Wes Bos

so deep by communicating with APIs. But if you wanna do it absolutely free, the cursor built in documentation worked very well. I'm not sure if you have the thoughts on that. It's obnoxious because in so folks who don't know, newbies, skeptics, anybody, via the terminal, which is like I had a call with them a couple months ago. He's he's like, I really think syntax hasn't come back. So with the idea of

Scott Tolinski

The the last one here is just like chat apps, like chat g p t. And I gotta say Yeah. I used AI

Wes Bos

Then you can take those three or four and then provide it to the prompt and get your answer. And and the same thing works with images as well. That's how Google There's OpenCode, which will allow you to bring your own thing. There's several others out there. We'll probably do a whole show actually building stuff with AI. So this is not writing getting AI to write code for you.

Wes Bos

it's absolutely nuts how deep all of this goes. So certainly check out I'm I'm such a huge fan of transformers. Js. I've built so many things with to you wanna be able to display it in some way

Scott Tolinski

use tech that you already know if possible here.

Wes Bos

images off. And that would be extremely slow as well to have to upload 3,000,

Scott Tolinski

a smile and took a screenshot when there was a smile, or I could build something that, you know, did this or that really fascinating thing, like generated in an image or something like that. If you leave the entire

Wes Bos

nobody in my circles uses repl. It. And it seems like repl. It is absolutely huge, which tells me that there's, like, a whole generation of people who are building stuff Yarn just sort of coming at it. Like, they don't care.

Wes Bos

to summarize something. You can ask it to modify something. It'll just give you the answer, and you can go ahead and copy paste it. Or it will allow you to apply the edits manually, which quite honestly is is kind of kind of slow. And a lot of people didn't use that this, like, chat feature until And then I took that

Scott Tolinski

We're about building things. And, like,

Wes Bos

like, dogs that are warp And if if images have similar, detection in there.

Wes Bos

indexer You need to be able to obviously parse it. That's why sometimes when the the result is coming in, like, let's say you're streaming in a markdown table, for a split second, you might see, like, a weird half formatted markdown table, and that's because the whole table

Scott Tolinski

and reference it. However, with Cursor, you, like, frequently have to do at

Wes Bos

And in order to find JSONL's efficiency makes it popular for choice with fine tuning language models. So Oh, that makes sense. Because with JSON, you'd have to wait for it to return the entire thing before you can go ahead and parse it. Right? That's a pain in the butt. So JSONL

Scott Tolinski

AI is just like, I've never heard of that even though I have all the documentation in front of me. Yeah.

Scott Tolinski

it exactly right and you're constantly having to go back and forth with it, you you might be getting a little frustrated

Wes Bos

inside of the IDE to do something, the we're seeing a lot of people are playing poker or whatever.

Scott Tolinski

So I'm still still kinda working on that. Yeah. My my biggest frustrations do still revolve around

Wes Bos

have you used Langchain in the past there, Scott? It's been about a year for me.

Scott Tolinski

with JSON.

Wes Bos

context, tokens,

Scott Tolinski

to have some sort of output

Wes Bos

probably, by far, the biggest one is Cloud Node. And then couple identifying it. Even just like smile detection.

Scott Tolinski

suggest to people is to explore.

Wes Bos

And that is really nice way to

Scott Tolinski

wow. There's a ton of stuff in here that I might not

Wes Bos

maybe we'll we'll jump ahead to one of them, which is the idea of streaming. So Mhmm. These AI models are often very slow if you wanna simply send a request,

Scott Tolinski

So you can reference the docs in my mind I know a lot of people like v zero, but in my mind, this is for more of the person who doesn't want to get into the code as quickly themselves in terms of, like, in your in your editor, in your in your dev environment, like, up and running. Like, this is somebody who wants to build

Wes Bos

the second all of their tooling that they have. So add additional context to that prompt. That's called RAG, retrieval

Scott Tolinski

It's it's tiny. I'm doing the little thing. Listen. If I bump it the wrong way, it it the connection goes out. So I just gotta, like, leave it. It's not it's by no means a professional job, but I am a a terrible,

Wes Bos

People that just want a website don't care if they're doing it the right way. They just want it to work, and they want it to to The Vercel

Scott Tolinski

called temp inside of my sites folder. It is used for something with the least amount of effort, most popular one. It's it's basically another one.

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. And I've been seeing a lot of, JSONL

Wes Bos

libraries into your actual prompt. And you don't have to do it yourself. You just say, go read the docs for

Scott Tolinski

we can build something very easily for you.

Scott Tolinski

but also maybe the least amount of, human human interaction with it right off the bat.

Wes Bos

Initially, it was just UI focused, but it's much more based on the visual pricing, Is it really going to change how we how we do this type of thing? So we're gonna we're gonna run through, basically, how to actually write code, all the different a lot of people think that you you would train a model on something. Like, let's say, for example, we have, well, almost a thousand syntax episodes, and you wanna ask it a question about

Scott Tolinski

The Sentry

Wes Bos

especially if you're, like, at all a little bit burned out,

Scott Tolinski

I I will say that if you're the type of person who wants to build fun things and and, you know, explore a little bit, transformers, JS, and

Wes Bos

for your AI,

Scott Tolinski

You can gain so much information from interacting with the Century MCP server. So check it out at century.i0/syntax.

Wes Bos

one of the ways to sort of chat with your code base. So all of these IDEs are gonna have a sidebar where you can go ahead and select a model and be able to to chat with it.

Wes Bos

where you it will either just give you the answer,

Scott Tolinski

so that way I can do the cam link and whatever.

Wes Bos

than it is like like, all of these tools can do back end now.

Wes Bos

So we've got ghost text agents, chat agents, background agents. Right? CLI trying them all out will give you So if you're a bit of a a skeptic, and RAG. So this is something you'll you'll hear quite a bit about.

Wes Bos

and I kinda have a feeling that

Scott Tolinski

So I highly recommend giving CJ's video a watch because nobody explains it quite like him in terms of, like, getting your hands dirty and really building something.

Scott Tolinski

AI stuff,

Wes Bos

convert your question to an embedding. That will return this array of of numbers. And then you maybe you convert, And I know cloud code, you can do these things. You can open it up in an editor. You can view the Wes, but it's not as good. Not nearly in my opinion, not nearly as good as as using, like, a cursor or Versus Node Mhmm.

Wes Bos

streaming the data as it's coming back from the AI.

Wes Bos

you don't have to use all of these. I would probably just start with the OpenAI SDK.

Wes Bos

has a MCP server as well. If you wanna get details about a component,

Scott Tolinski

everything that's happening, because Century essentially is is insight into how your application is functioning.

Wes Bos

those tools as well. So Yeah. I wouldn't write these off because they don't seem to be as popular in our circles of people who already know how to Node, but That's what I'm saying. I'm always oh, and Repl dot it. Repl dot it's huge in this in this one as Wes. And Yep. Especially repl.it because it seems like for different,

Scott Tolinski

I I guess that leads us to some process things we've mentioned throughout this episode. But, like, I think one of the biggest things that I can with AI tooling,

Wes Bos

like, items inside of it, the embeddings might be might close, or if they're similar colors, they might be close to them as well.

Wes Bos

JSON and markdown is is probably the best. Like, Cloudflare changed their Wrangler format from TOML to JSON, tell something to run, like a like a cron job every single time, it hooks into the CloudFlare

Scott Tolinski

cool things. We're about exploring technology.

Wes Bos

to the AI agent. So a big one that I I found out about a couple weeks ago was contact seven. This one will give you the ability to inject the documentation

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. Definitely bizarre.

Scott Tolinski

So

Wes Bos

it's an awesome little toolkit that you need to grab. It's not a a lot of people think it's since it's from Vercel, you have to host it with Vercel and have to use React and Next. Js. That is that is not the case here.

Scott Tolinski

Well, I have this. I've I've been digitizing

Wes Bos

and it will go ahead and do it. But there are other modes, and you're going to send some data, most likely text, but it could be Generally, There's there's a lot of awful stuff around AI, and I I I don't wanna discount that. But I do think that And Yeah. I agree. And I think that they are different approaches. So the idea with something like cloud code is you you type into the box, hey. Build x, y, and z, and it will make a plan, and it will go off and do do that thing. And I think the idea with those is that text can be converted into embeddings, which is essentially just like a a large vector,

Scott Tolinski

a scratch pad websites. I throw up together demos. Some of them work. Some of them don't. The cool thing about my temp folder is it automatically deletes itself. So because of that, like, I I can just toss stuff in there. And if I ever actually like the process that's happening, I can move it into a real project or whatever. Otherwise, ideal for handling large datasets, streaming data scenarios.

Wes Bos

making art, No sick pick. But down in the comments below, let us know your sick pick. I'd love to to hear it. And, is that that's all you got today, Scott?

Scott Tolinski

Don't But the IDE chat is probably in Godot to change things in the Godot interface.

Wes Bos

chat apps, you know, being able to generate photos,

Scott Tolinski

At least I have found to get specific syntax, I'm always having to reference constantly those docs to say Node. Yeah.

Wes Bos

given the sounds that they make when they Yarn scared. You know? Something absolutely And you we can't take the transcript SDK, but the ideas oh, and Warp. The Warp, my favorite terminal, has, like, totally pivoted their business Yep. Into being, like, a coding tool, repo Alright. That's all we have for you today. We got no sick picks for you today because we are recording ahead for the summer, and I am I am out. I'm flat out of sick picks. So We can only buy so many things here.

Scott Tolinski

objects.

Wes Bos

for example,

Scott Tolinski

big

Wes Bos

that has a few of the features, I think it will give you a good idea of, like, token counting,

Scott Tolinski

versioning modern software.

Scott Tolinski

much stuff. And there's so much good stuff on here, and it does a great job of giving you demos and examples and how to use these things. But in the same regard, it's a lot of words. And all of a sudden, you're feeling like, you can tell

Wes Bos

The fact that you can always

Scott Tolinski

your your note on research in those types of things,

Wes Bos

convert

Scott Tolinski

hey. You wanna build something? You wanna start with a chat inside of a a a GUI? Then, like, hey. This is the way to go. This is maybe a long time. Because for a little while, before you had things like before the the chat interface was any good. Because that for a while, the chat interface was really bad inside of both Vercel Node, and, yeah, like like you said, if if you're waiting for that entire JSON object to come in

Wes Bos

I'm up at the cottage right now, and we're just talking about it. And That's impressive. Wow. That I That's a pair of pretty tiny.

Wes Bos

interfaces, response, and then you take every other image in the world and convert those two embeddings.

Wes Bos

or, they're they have tons of examples on their GitHub as well if you wanna dip into that. But I would probably tell you, if you're just trying to build something here, There's just a whole bunch of handy tools in there. So if you wanna go ahead and build a little chat app, tooling that we can use. The next next way that you can interface with this is MCP servers. This one's not necessarily direct, but the idea with MCP server is that they are are kind of just like plug ins First, we're gonna talk about how to actually interface

Scott Tolinski

word. There's also a handful of GUI apps, v zero probably being the most,

Wes Bos

thing, and and Wes you can go ahead with it. Turn off the, like, people the type that wanna just, like, have it generate code are more more going towards the IDE, and then the type that wanted to just build a visual website

Scott Tolinski

In terms of shape or design or what?

Wes Bos

sometimes that is too expensive or too large

Scott Tolinski

as being the way that people have been working within LLMs We're gonna go broke trying to find sick picks.

Scott Tolinski

Especially, like like I said, skeptics are gonna be like, move. Let me do it. You know? Yeah. And I think that's harder to do from the CLI than it is from the IDE itself.

Wes Bos

No. But what needs to happen is if you have custom data that is the AI model JS not trained on, you have to then provide that data as part of the prompt.

Wes Bos

using

Scott Tolinski

Js.

Wes Bos

with AI, like writing code with AI, as well this is it has a has the ability to just pass, like, a JSON flag to it, and it will always return you JSON.

Wes Bos

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mini USB was far superior to micro USB.

Scott Tolinski

Bolt.new,

Wes Bos

I don't know. It just was better. It it was easier easier to figure out which which way it went in. Micro USB sucked.

Wes Bos

provider, good at writing code with AI, you need to actually build something with these tools in order to understand what all of the pieces are and how all they all fit together. And if you build, like, a small little application So Wes Surf is trying to at least, I think, they're trying to attack,

Scott Tolinski

the I don't know if it was, like, the social context or, like, you know, we latch on There's a lot of awful stuff around it. You know? Like, there's Yes.

Wes Bos

and I'm getting four down, two up, and the video is way better. And the the ping is the ping is fine. So I don't know, man. That's

Scott Tolinski

Yeah. Alright. The next one is an MCP a little bit because

Wes Bos

you're in the browser, which JS, like, the very basic chat. You can ask it infrastructure

Scott Tolinski

and to give these things a a rip so that way you're not learning about in some dry context or something without,

Wes Bos

Tailwind four or Svelte five, and then it will go off, download the docs, stick that into the prompt,

Scott Tolinski

the least scary way to start using AI in your app in small dosages,

Wes Bos

And I was like, really? And then, like, here we are. Couple months later, everybody's going bananas over terminal UI. So it's kinda interesting.

Scott Tolinski

different

Wes Bos

typing in what they want, and they're getting these awful sound effects out the other end. But I don't care. I don't care. It it gave me a really fun, you burned it, audio audio little clip, and it worked great.

Wes Bos

and then and I piped that into Eleven Labs, which was a custom model trained on Ricky from Trailer Park's voice, and then it played it back to me. Right? And, like, just like putting those two things together is just so much fun because

Scott Tolinski

It's like, if you are if there's a reason why, it seems like we're converging on a handful of tools because the ear behind the edge,

Wes Bos

one thing. So Or you just wanna be running it locally.

Wes Bos

also, like, dipping into, like, local AI stuff as Wes. We've got a note coming up, but just, like, try out transformers. Js, try out TensorFlow.

Scott Tolinski

yesterday. No. This weekend. Not yesterday. On Sunday.

Wes Bos

other formats as well JS well. I think scary cloud out of it for some people Just call it machine learning. It sounds so much more scientific and sick.

Wes Bos

running an AI Node. Because these these big models, like OpenAI, they're good they're very good at lots of stuff. But Yeah. If you wanna yeah. If you wanted to build something like Photoshop where you you draw over something and then it tries to fill it in, you could reach for one of their is really, really nice. So you find that you you say the AI is really dumb at x, y, and z. The AI, for example, AI can't do math. I talked about this in our MCP episode.

Scott Tolinski

to do coding like this for

Wes Bos

which of those pieces of the transcripts you need to provide to the prompt,

Scott Tolinski

all my band's old footage, which are on, like, Hi eight d v, tapes. I don't even know if it's d v. They're on Hi eight tapes, which are these, like, tapes this size. And so I've been digitizing it all, throwing it on YouTube because, like, Basically,

Wes Bos

is the very basics there. Yeah.

Wes Bos

Well, they will also confidently that will give it the the powers that you need.

Wes Bos

the audio people are sitting there being like these idiots are just you end up just, like, clicking together a lot of these things

Scott Tolinski

know about it. Even if it doesn't, it'll just give you

Wes Bos

The they're stealing content. It uses a ton of energy. You know? The whales are dying.

Wes Bos

it's really nice. Like, Vercel is is really good at building SDKs, so

Scott Tolinski

before you go ahead and and use it. Yeah. Because that is something now that you you actually have to worry about because,

Wes Bos

with the idea of JSON lines JS you get simply one object each time, and at least you can you know, you can safely parse that entire line the agents came along where it just sort of staged all of the changes. And then you can either you can go through every single change and accept them one by one, or you can just kinda YOLO probably a year, year and a half ago Wes it took the webcam photo of me, took,

Scott Tolinski

our kind of deeply tech audience. And as far as, like, the AI skeptics go, might be most skeptical of this type of thing just because of the type of individual that most Yeah. The brain Node. Is No.

Scott Tolinski

Dia browser now for that specific thing. The chat window in Dia browser is so good because you know how some documentation sites have, like, the chat with AI feature Yeah. In their? Dia basically gives you that for any project.

Scott Tolinski

v zero well, not using Vercel specifically, but it's it's built on Vercel.

Scott Tolinski

things. So it it allows you to use all kinds of JS that not exciting? That is exciting that you can build that kind of stuff. And and, like, who would have told me five years ago, ten years ago that I'd be able to build some of this stuff or do some of this stuff, I would have been like, that is incredible. There's so many neat things I wanna do with these ideas.

Scott Tolinski

Yes. And and for those of you who might be listening to that and being like, what's the point of that? What's the point? The point is is that you're building things that are at least getting you interested instead of, like, trying to go whole hog into this thing. Yeah. I will I will still use chat apps for connect with other items via, like, an API. So, like, if you want to

Wes Bos

a much better feeling for the trade offs on that for for at least two weeks before they're all deprecated and new ones come out, and you have no idea that three is better than four and everything has an o in it, and you're you're all confused.

Scott Tolinski

how so many things exist here, how so many people are using this. But, basically,

Wes Bos

to run

Scott Tolinski

There's MCP for things like DaVinci Resolve. I mean, there's a lot of different MCP out there for interfacing with different applications.

Scott Tolinski

because most of us are used to working with autocomplete

Wes Bos

AI when you're writing code. So the probably the most entry level one, and maybe you've experienced this, is just like ghost text or or auto completion. So as of recording, couple days ago, Google rolled out their own Gemini code.

Wes Bos

multi multimedia.

Scott Tolinski

So if you were to have itch behind the ear, then do the dog's thing. That's fine too.

Wes Bos

to interact with your code Bos. So the big ones being have to send that off to to the cloud. Right? So they do, like, No. I certainly

Scott Tolinski

allows you to interact with Hugging Face, which Hugging Face is one of those

Wes Bos

silly like that. And and that will sort of set the stage for us. So a custom prompt

Scott Tolinski

explore. Don't be afraid to go out there. Explore. If it breaks, if it doesn't work,

Wes Bos

So

Scott Tolinski

down below type of,

Wes Bos

Most of them now have defaulted to what's called agent mode.

Wes Bos

I

Scott Tolinski

datasets.

Scott Tolinski

my job is to use this stuff. I've picked up so many of these tools, and I still cannot find time to use all of them.

Scott Tolinski

in in the editor. If we're talking about skeptics and newbies too, I feel like they might have a harder time with this. Because especially if it's not getting

Wes Bos

Exactly. And and, like, the multimodels allow you to send an image as part of the prompt. There's models out there that will return images or video as part of the part of the prompt. There's models out there that will transcribe audio. Right? It'll do speech to text. There's models out there that will do text to speech. I did a a really silly one,

Scott Tolinski

And the USB micro USB came unsoldered from the board, and

Wes Bos

of a thousand episodes and stuff that into the prompt and then ask it what you want. So what you need to do is computer vision models in there, or, like, I've done it in the past where you can try to filter out bad messages from people. You know? There's toxicity and then also building things with AI. So, like, understanding all of the different parts, and and some of the functionality.

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