State of JS 2023 Reactions

don't use TypeScript.

No. Just if you well, try, but a framework for building websites And it's just like it feels really nice. It's like aluminum, running those, and they're not taking JavaScript surveys.

you're gonna use it on Vercel. Right? because, you know, so many of these little things, anything that adopts the adapter pattern is super easy to deploy because you just install a given adapter and and let it rip. But, again, And not that that's a bad thing if everything is good, but it it is something to be aware of. Mhmm. You you don't have that flexibility and freedom that you get with just deploying a node app anywhere because we that that used to be a really nice thing about Next. Js. You could just deploy node app anywhere, and that was just the way to do it or do it on Vercel. It's just a straight up node app. I'm sure you can still do it as a straight up node app. But yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

complexity,

You know? non JavaScript languages used by people in the survey?

I would assume a lot of people who might even answer this might not even have, like, a firm understanding of Yeah. What? You know? K. There's no chance. That's not that's not usage. That's just usage in the JavaScript world. Yeah. That's Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. So I got 3 of them

generally, that's, like, the infrastructure team 32%,

usage went up but the interest and positivity went down is because, like, well, like, I wanna use the thing that everybody's using. It's the most documentation,

just got it all right now. We showed up to this recording wearing the same T shirt, and I had to change. So

This is you know what's really cool about this is a lot of these questions this year have been free form, and I'm not sure we should maybe have Sasha on again who runs

non JavaScript So,

React sucks.

my DigitalOcean it it goes. And, like, if you were to look at,

Yeah. That it's it's not surprising that you would like that. And in fact, somebody left a comment on 1 of our videos when I was with CJ here in the past couple episodes, and they're like,

Twitter hype ain't everything. No. I would expect Hano and Eliza to be much higher. And I'm also surprised I'm gonna say quick.

Bun. Ah, I think that's a bun for all of them.

it's a big thing to switch over, and it's, like, another mental overhead shift of changing from 1 way to another.

from 48% so that everyone can use it. It's such a such a pain.

really committing to the things that make BUN. Like, the things that make BUN unique are all excellent, but I find myself having a really hard time saying, like,

number 1 hosting service, 47% you know, those, like, Poppets and

for production builds because roll up is very good at all sorts of things in production builds, and it uses ES build

Nullify, number 4. Heroku still and Vue has gone up as well, which is pretty interesting, I have a Bluehost thing that I pay, like, $120 So what time you did say bun? Oh, good. That's great. Runner-up and Amber, 81.

have have written it in. Like, I had to expect Quick to have a a bigger usage than that. Right? And Redwood,

Vite, the thing everybody knows and loves, Vite uses 2 different build tools behind the scenes. It uses roll up Yeah. Performance, yeah, also, Webpack Mini because

a year for, like, people that are taking this thing care about web development. Right? And this is not just, like, hot takes. This is, like, actually people

your fire pit or your,

and it will throw it in your clipboard. And I often think, I don't wanna wrap this whole thing in a copy. I want a pipe to Scott.

Yeah. It feels like people are being, you know, led to use it and then maybe not having a great time. You know? Maybe that's it. Yeah. What what's got the most positivity,

corner. We've got all kinds of really cool stuff. We've got these new t shirts. There's 4 new t shirts that are gonna be up there. We got a couple skate decks left. We got a couple basketballs.

is webpack at 90%.

to 80%. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. I have a a prediction, Wes. Yeah. My prediction is in the 2024

is. Industry sector. I find this interesting. Like like, what industries are people working in? Right? 46%

Yeah. ESLint interesting to to still see things like we talked about, maybe perhaps like Redwood or or sales or some of these being so much lower or even, you know, the much

Oh, man. And so did you do they have to, like, build it up? And then Yeah. Yeah. It was right on the edge too. Yeah.

Yeah. Talking about PHP was right. Yeah. I know. No kidding. Yeah. I'm kinda bummed to look at the other meta frameworks here And And I had a chipped tooth for

in general. I think people react folks who come to Solid are are gonna find that it's a nice experience compared to maybe what they're dealing with React. But I always find the positivity 1 to be 1 of the most That's pretty nice.

mad at express. You know? People don't have express pain. I think that the all the pain I'm starting to feel is that it's it's not

Which is it's wild to think. You know? I mean, given that when we started this show,

without having to spin up a server.

in in JavaScript? So we wanna I'll tell you where I've been hosting everything now is basically just Cloudflare. I've been hosting everything on Cloudflare. I I find it to be dead simple. So good. Works every time.

Fastify at number 3, nice to see. I've always loved working in Fastify.

So it's it's almost at a point where I would say, like, most people are using TypeScript.

They don't implement that as well. However, now that we have the, async local storage API,

Only 26 individuals responded saying signals when when there is, like, serious talk about adding it to the to the language. So that's crazy to me. I want I want signals. Pattern matching is really high up in here too. Pattern matching is great. We've seen pattern matching being really nice and rust. A lot of people have noticed that. So I I think pattern matching would be cool. Observables, Big world, insurance. A big world. I know. Yeah.

booger.

100% of you. You can use the polyfill today. It's great. I feel like the standard lib and the date management

Not all that interesting, answering this, so it's gonna be pretty heavy in React's felt world, but

to Vite at this point. But It's it's Next. Js is really what it is. And if you go to the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Number 5, bash? It's doing me good. 2 for 2. But runners up. So 98%

what's that called? The 5 panel

I I never fly Delta, and, man, I'm a I'm a Delta hater now. It it sucks. So yeah. I felt kinda bad because I had previously said 1 of my Twitter tips was to mute the name of every airline. Yeah. Yeah. It's And then I went into the chat and saw that you had this massive ordeal, and I was like, oh, poor guy.

bun.

Strapi, Koa, Happy, these are none of the ones I've I've I feel like these gotta be, like, a little bit legacy because

that's very high.

and you don't have to, like, fuss around with the click click click click click. Like, it always works. It has a really nice strong at the highest usage We got the coos the can koozies,

Windows XP, Dell Latitude to to use it. Obviously, it's not. So I think we

it's a big, Netlify

Node thing for me. I'll I'll just say it. Yes.

Svelte went up 4%, You know, you you I don't have no idea what the conversations around this Yarn, but, like,

48 tooth stuff on.

like, a show on that or have somebody on. I think it'd be kinda cool. I know you you and CJ were talking about it as well.

Let let's,

developers that were deploying serverless functions every single day.

pita chip that was apparently like a piece of concrete.

It's just like whatever everybody's talking about, I can't be doing it for some reason.

SSR my my about pages and the SEO stuff, but CSR, everything else, keep my data clients like, I'm going so hard in that direction. It's it's very funny now.

Yeah. I know. It's so funny because that that conversation has been happening so frequently lately where JavaScript developers are trying Laravel, and they're like, wow. This is actually great. And I think the reason why it's actually great is is not be I mean, Laravel's great, but not because Laravel is anything special. It just makes all the choices for you for you. Right? Like,

people are trying other things. You know? database inside of it. So it's I think it's yeah, that's that's good. I was a lot of my auth, and all of that, it's all or building an

Man, it JS really interesting to see how much some of the like, viewing up, like, 4%, Great.

I would I would love love to have

Webpack had a 89% positivity in 27, which is wild to me in the 1st place. But now it's, like, down in the 40%. So it's nearly dropped 40 percentage points in in terms of positivity. I have not touched Webpack

Yeah. I agree. Versus Instead of JavaScript. People not actually using Ruby. Because I think Ruby is Ruby is below Kotlin it's just not worth moving it.

And, Java.

we use them Scott website.

have gotten so much better in the last 3 or 4 years.

Yeah. It it is funny how these things it it it is like it's weird because, like, yeah, people are saying there's there's too many choices that need to be made.

man, standard lib the Lodash usage, we didn't go over this 1, but Lodash usage is still date functions and Lodash is still huge, huge, huge.

but BUN certainly to it. And same with, like, Redwood. We had Tom Preston Warp on from Redwood as well.

if you sign somebody up for Bluehost. They were giving me a $100 if I signed people up for Bluehost. Yes. Yeah. I yeah. It's wild. And the reason is is because

workers, and Webpack issues number 4. Yeah. If you're looking at this list for me, I'm I'm trying not to be too much of a hater here, but, like, the top 4 are all Webpack issues if you're asking me. Wes and and CJS,

Yeah.

good data because, insurance, you know, quotes, you know, been wild.

it's nice to have a quiet toy rather than something. Sometimes I've I'm playing with stuff here at my desk, and I'm thinking, I'm sorry, Randy. Like, you probably hear me dropping

for Vite. It will replace ES build and Feel like Ruby has to be here still? situation here and there. And it it still can be a pain ESLint, definitely.

Meanwhile, positivity for Vue

somebody commented, Wes, did you chip your tooth? And I was like, yeah. Like,

solid.

many, many years ago, I was just looking back at 20 episode 2/14, I picked a especially because, for me, at least, a lot of my 100% TypeScript.

an actual,

I'm going sayer side rendering or just spit out a Node app. Yeah. I love that they publish the results, like, what people wrote in here.

Let's talk about build tools.

that's nothing is ever perfect. No data is ever perfect. But React has gone up 3%, figuring out how to get it to to run on Cloudflare as well because

makes less choices for you. And therefore,

Usage. TypeScript, JavaScript balance, what what are those called? Like, sensory toys? Push them in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they have these, like, monkey noodles, which is just a little silicone So that's a write in. It's obviously lower. But very, very impressed.

just, like, server frameworks. Oh, sales is on there too. Yep. Yep. Sales. Cool.

20%

Wes state. And hyped up Eliza

right now where it is being drafted up. Yeah. It just feels like

languages.

all have gone down. Yeah. So it's very similar to the React answers where everybody's using it, but a lot of the complaints Yarn, I I don't want to use it because it's it just has such dominance.

browser JavaScript. Weird. I don't know if that's that that doesn't feel Redwood, desktop app.

solid a lot of these things are better. They're they're way better. But, like,

the pipe operator. I I wonder where that's at. Bro, I'm just looking at this, and the proposal pipeline operator

Wes in React,

feels like pretty

coupled

So, you know, you have those, like, gas lighters you click and you light a fireplace or something like that. I got 1 that is a USB C chargeable

back end, 27% sick pick T shirt. Scott is wearing the blazing fast.

You have that next middleware.

it has gone down from 2020,

HTML has so many new interesting,

That's a tough 1 for me.

Interesting.

or I got 2 of them.

I don't start a project without TypeScript that might not be connected, where with Vue, you have a very clear options of what you should be using for state management for for basically everything. Right? And same with with Svelte or or Angular. They take care of a little bit more for you. And because of that, I would say it wasn't a thing. And then, like, a few years into the show, we were like, which one's gonna Wes else is it gonna be Flow TypeScript or Reason? And at that point, it wasn't even clear. And now it's like TypeScript is so ubiquitous. I I don't even

now now we have that, right,

those are are a little bit more, like, corporate, I think. You know? I think a a lot more people host on those than we think, but,

like building desktop apps using JavaScript because you can lock in the specific features. You know? If you're you're shipping on a web view, you know exactly which features are there. Browser compatibility goes out the the window. You don't have to worry about it as much.

I think we should get somebody who knows exactly what's going on. You can you can often go through the t c 39

Like like, a 100% JavaScript.

a roll down on this list, you know, reacts baked in signals to use signals there.

Quicken up 3%.

like I do, Yeah.

like, little

they deal in small numbers even if it is. And it's, like, often small little, like, feature.

Number 1, 44%.

Yeah. Most commented library are a a worksheet library which received the most comments. Next. Js for sure. React or Next. Js. Yeah.

Christy from where does she work again? Awesome. Alright. Let's get into oh, let's let's real quick plug. We just got new T shirts for syntax. Scott and I are wearing in learning once they are aware of it.

on them. The pipe operator, I want all the time. I want it all the time. Yeah. Sometimes you're doing, like, a map filter reduce, 20, 000, 000 requests. It's you can do a 1000 times more in other ones, but I don't think people that

since the move to video, it's become increasingly obvious that Scott has ADHD.

their runtimes and and what their Yeah. Oh, we're using the same same dang cup. We got our big cups here. Man, we are just, like, while they jump in

Yeah. It obviously doesn't come with all the niceties, like the the auto build and cut Vercel right, where, like, a lot of people would argue that

respondents, we will see

And, Azure Functions, 9%, is way cooler than you think. Yeah. And I said, but do I have to get a Windows laptop to use it? And he goes, no.

These things Yarn, we should say, they're obviously going to be biased based on

percent of the respondents.

V test.

but you still have a 1 off

see what quick is all about. Quick is really, really neat, and you can bring all of your React components

Oh, I see that. It kinda rules. Yeah. So you maybe maybe a nice little candle lighter for you, and then you have to deal with flames when you're starting your flame.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting stuff. And it does I mean, all of these track with things that we've been hearing for so long, every single person in our industry overall.

Blazing fast, worldwide Wes, information superhighway. Wes got a whole bunch of other ones as well. We got a Prettier collab 1 and a Drizzle collab 1. They're pretty cool. Look at this.

And I did a, like, a a bit of a testing here. It's like, where do we host these things? Do we throw them in a bucket? Do I throw it in a a function a pages function? Do I throw them in a worker? Like, what what's the fastest way to do all these things? So we'll talk all about that. But hosting, man, it it's a wild world right now, and and I I tend to just either throw it on Coolify or throw it in Cloudflare and and call it a day.

You know? Like like, that's what people think of of c sharp. Like, you gotta, like, use this light theme has just rolled out the latest results. And

be in your your Twitter bubble Wes everybody JS suggesting that, this thing is the 2nd coming or something, and it's incredible and whatever. Yeah. You look on here, and it has 10 respondents saying they use it. So it's important definitely to to to get your your mind in a recalibrated way with these kind of surveys. And, also,

it worked pretty good. Enough where I was like, yeah, I like this a lot. And I I use the d 3 SQLite

and it's a little, like it's long, so you don't have to be near it when you're lighting it. And Oh, okay.

an 11% drop in positivity

on BUN Wow. Versus Deno on 15.

Because you can say, like, if we looked at this deployment, we can guess what people are thinking, but you can literally just read the So front end framework ratios over time, I think this is always interesting to see

It is like a such AAA

I love just playing with it and just tying it and moving around. I've been playing with it this whole episode. So It's all Veet.

Let's tackle that. Let's find let's dig in. Let's look for our slow queries. Maybe something's missing in index. Maybe something isn't being cached that could be cached. And Century makes it easy to solve and find all that stuff. So if you want all of this and more, head on over to century.i0forward/syntax.

That doesn't make sense there. Bash is higher than Go and Rust.

before it's all gone.

function calls.

Adonis, a lot of these quick, And probably every third 1 does mention So I guess people think, yeah, maybe that's more of a serverless runtime than a JavaScript runtime. I don't know if that's

Let's see what Wes let's see what the interest. Yeah? Or the positivity for Next. Js goes from 75%

everything is built around that, and it's I think it's very hard to to move that type of thing away, and positivity Yeah. That's right. Yeah. 67%

like, flame based lighter around there again.

to see some some really good ones that really aren't getting enough love here. Like, QUIC, only 34 people I won't I won't stop you. 5 if I were to say it's probably worth Can we do the finish up with the awards real quick? Or we yes. Do that. Let's do that.

Did you look at the missing features

to see an uptick.

a big pain point for a lot of people,

to sick pick a toy that I stole from my kids, Like, if you have a Samsung or LG or whatever, I appreciate everybody who who does that.

positivity,

examples, the most integrations,

people responded saying signals.

Oh, V test.

Jamstack, man.

The the,

to to light it up and even lighting the barbecue. It's been such a nice thing. We've had it for probably 4 or 5 years, and every time we use it, we're like, this is so good. You might like 1 of these things too. I I when I said it was $10, I I was wrong. It's actually 5.99,

and definitely something that I I don't know how it gets any better, to be honest. So, you know, I I I've moved fully over to ESM a long time ago,

Shameless plugs. Check us out

And they said, like, alright. Well, what would a next generation version of roll up look like that had the speed of ES build, but it was built from scratch in Rust.

become the main build compiler in itself because the React Sanity, more so than Vue, more so than Svelte or Angular,

So HTML. HTML. Yeah. Node use it for all my conference talks. Like, the some of the live. Yeah. Those run on GitHub pages, but it's just Okay. It's HTML. Right?

Sick.

has to show for that. Yeah. Service workers always I like about BUN, but I ultimately can't find myself or or Render or

I sat next I I had dinner with Bruno from Century, and he does all the c sharp stuff.

that you have less

1 of them. I'm wearing the Yeah. What so what in 2 years from now, what are you what are you gonna be, in in React. So I'm curious what this will look like once people start to give,

most of the comments or anything on there are, like, from 2021, 2022.

Be I'm surprised. That's up to 73% You'll you'll get to it. Yeah. Alright.

where would you put Vercel in there? Insurance. Probably technical tools. Oh, is there insurance on here? No. I don't Node. There is.

are, like, not present in the usage category. It's like, hey. These things are here.

Yeah. There's so much more stuff on here. A lot that we didn't even go into, so check it Wes. 2023.stateofjs.com.

Jamstack. Yeah.

it goes from 20% to 54%. And I gotta say that tracks with my experience with Astro. I I tend to really like it. I pick up SvelteKit just because it's like it's the Svelte framework, and that's what I use. But Yep. If I'm if I'm writing a React application today or Vue app and maybe not a Vue. Maybe Vue. I don't know. If I'm writing React application today, I'm picking Astra as my my framework for sure.

So You got a tooth. I I chipped mine on a, or Railway or 1 of those. But Hetzner is is starting to get up here. Node Hetzner the big challenge with Hetzner is even getting an account on there. I I Wes like, they their security is so intense. I had to, like, send a DM and,

a app for all the TVs.

to 56% take the survey. So, obviously, there's going to be people that listen to this podcast that are, Yeah. I wonder if that's because do, has And now they're like, oh, AppRouter is the way to go. And, obviously, they're still supporting the the old way, and you can mix and match them. But I I don't think I've heard of this. What is roll down? Obviously

Js. Many of Next features are locked behind vendor. Yeah.

of developers are using Vite again.

Directus,

This is a tough 1, Yeah. Adonis, 12. You know? Like Meteor's higher than Adonis. Yeah.

Sign up and get 2 months for free.

it's it's really cool. Excessive dominance. Let's see. Dominance of React. Predominance of React. React is everywhere, but is used in a standardized way.

standard library.

from the server to the ESLint, and we had where it does mobile,

Yeah. Thank you so much for that. That's it's it's and a decrease So those would be excessive dominance. That's a wild pain point to say.

And if you try to deploy it elsewhere,

meeting notes to see. Yeah. So it's at stage 2, which is just in draft mode.

8 and 9, the top 2 ones, they're so much bigger than the rest of the respondents here.

is is moved over to Wow. Amber still not. Expected.

And I wonder if positivity JS

Yeah. Svelte. Svelte. It's pretty wild. And h t max.

Yes. I was gonna say this about the conversation we just had about TypeScript being Okay. So you're making gonna say it, but I was like, I don't know. But, yeah, built in TypeScript You know what's interesting is that

Redwood JS that?

because I think people are gonna actually start to get to use it in some regard at some point this year. Because I even saw Evan Evan just, Evan, you posted today that he had his 1st view app using roll down actually working.

keystones on here. Mhmm. The only 3, like, CMSs.

So if you have a middleware function that runs and then later on, you have another middleware function that runs, You can put everything in a store and just access it without having to pass it in, and that has been really, really nice. So and, so that's my 1 reason. The other reason is people are not

There's, too much fatigue in that direction. But then the options that reduce that fatigue

Wes

Yeah. If you were to give them a look and give them a try, especially with things like Redwood or Adonis or some of these other ones. Even even Meteor does a lot for you. And and I haven't kept up with Meteor that much, but it's it's still chugging along for sure. Yeah. Do you think that's because people just want to be told what to use? Like, the reason why Next. Js stagnant.

Man, SvelteKit is killing it. SvelteKit is killing it. Astro also, though. Astro goes from, oh, since 2021, interesting that they most of them seem to go up.

I'm gonna say types.

indicator. You Node, we can all get ourselves into little bubbles, and it's easy to to, like,

usage, With your kids? a lot of the other features, Oh, yeah. It's, resumability, Wow.

Wes both get to guess. The most adopted technology, ordered to the technology with the largest year over year progression.

implementation of functions just yet.

applications on,

Really?

JavaScript usage, Vite.

I had, like, a modal dialogue open, so it, like, was covering Scott's face. And I I just saw the same T shirt, and we were, like, pointed the same way. And I thought to me

incredible every single year to see us be at the top here. So it's shocking. So thank you so much.

Next. Js and Vercel. Not because it's bad, maybe because it's too good. Right? They're so tightly

interesting aspects of this just to gauge general sentiment around around these things. Because if you look at positivity around Angular,

no Rails for JavaScript in based on connect, the type of audience that answers them as as well as, like, we tell people to to go like, a couple years ago, we told people to go and,

Yeah. Go Node and Rust are still a little niche, but III

Yeah. I you know, DigitalOcean is a platform I think about for Just riding riding Vite on this thing.

And not that Next. Js is difficult to deploy, but if you want, like, the the features, Christy from yeah.

the most respondents, number 1, is is Next. Js issues is number 1, Let's talk front end framework pain points because these are the things that I think people have issues with their front end frameworks. And it it's funny because, you know, how many of these are And lit. Lit has gone up too, although usage. Solid's gone up. You know, it seems like Solid is becoming 1 of those ones that's getting more and more awareness, is super low on this, which it goes to show you that, like, Italy, man. I I always like I had to sleep on the floor in an airport for was in an airport for I was in JFK for, like, 24 hours with my kids.

finance, 16%, 24% So it's an exciting 1, and then we're gonna dive on on into it. My name is Wes. I'm a developer half of the people that take this thing are just building more JavaScript for the JavaScript people? Oh, big fan. Big fan. Alright. What do you got for a sick pick today?

Damn.

Hosting service Cool.

This is a good idea to add to the language.

in retention as well. That's interesting. Wow. So Next. Js usage has gone up, but interest, retention,

you don't hear that much about them these days, but they have been existing for a long time. Meteor.

only Deno.

it does so much for you that you you, you know, don't have to do all the all the pain pnpm stuff that was listed in the pain points. And if we go to the the meta frameworks pain points,

4%.

Scott is in this industry. Right? It's giant.

So, well, you got flames anyways. Wes. But I don't. I Yeah. I think this would be really nice at the cottage because was I had a chipped tooth for, like, probably, like, 8 years, and I never really got it, fixed. And then I whenever I see a TikTok, I'm like, oh, I should probably get my my chipped tooth fixed.

to React or any of these things? And it what I like about this is that they've broken them down. Let's say you have very React specific issues.

that right there

Imu 1. The Limu Imu 1. But, yeah, had they had something like 3, 000

oof. Oof. Oof.

that's why people are in, like, Rails and Laravel world are so happy because they're just told what to use, and everybody uses the same thing.

Roll down. So here's here's the gist on roll down. Basically,

You gotta be kidding me. Really? Number 10 on 9%. But I I think that that shows more of Ruby being its own ecosystem

fireplace. If you got 1, you can light birthday candles, anything.

you you'll be you'll be cruising forever, because I can't imagine deploying on Heroku today. I see. That's why all these

Oh, yeah. That's crazy. They're just so wild. Yeah. They can just add a whole bunch of Tell me. The the server is often Functions. That's something I have not tried out yet JS DigitalOcean's

It's gonna You know? It's gonna be beat. The most write in answers,

people said Node. Js.

Veet.

who wrote ESLint in here or at this.

of respondents, uptick here? SvelteKit.

the Gatsby usage has sort of remained

definitely

was Next. Js was number 2 and storybook number 3. Sick. PIP people loving it. Awesome. Well, that was super fun. I really enjoyed that. Let's move into some sick kicks and shit. Wes do,

which front end frameworks are people using.

27% Let's move into you have to have, like, a build step that outputs

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Cool. Well, that's really interesting. I love this survey every single year. Again, it gives us a good,

So most people working on I think it's safe to say that most people are either building apps for people or working on applications for customers

React is too dominant. And, I mean, I agree. I I don't love working React myself, and it's everywhere. So you can't avoid it. Right? So you fall into this trap of, well, I gotta use it even if I don't like it. Slow progress, community concerns,

You you can still deploy Next. Js as a node application, and it runs really well. Right? Yeah. But but we have some can koozies and and whatnot, and we've got some really I almost just said what what we what we ordered, but we have some really cool stuff coming down the pipe as well. So check it on out. Grab some stuff Those things need a bit more love. So we should we maybe we'll describe what they are. So QUIC is Yeah. Well, I think that's that's a that's a almost a bummer that and click on swag in the top,

Yes. For for a couple of years. And then, like, once you're there same thing with, like, GoDaddy.

Oh, he's just spilled his water everywhere.

And I am very excited about that. Yeah. III met 1 of the Tory guys at, JS Nation. We should have him on the show. Oh, awesome. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. We're talking quite a bit about the challenges and some of the cool stuff they're doing over there with with desktop apps. So, you know, III

Yep. Probably who are very heavy JavaScript.

3, better date management. Hey. That's coming. That one's gonna be solved, folks.

Woo hoo. Yeah. So shout out to everybody Java. Java.

having usage.

And then you wanna, like, stick that in a variable, or I do this a lot in the in the JavaScript console, in the browser Wes I wanna copy the output. And there's a function in the the dev tools called copy, and you can just wrap it in a copy, and it will throw it in your clipboard.

and click on swag in the top.

something happened with my video where it duplicated, but it was just Scott.

hacking SSR. Who knows? Yeah. You're gonna be

choice overload and less excessive complexity there. And maybe that that choice overload and excessive complexity are are symptoms of the React ecosystem itself, but, you know, who knows? JavaScript Vercel has got, like, a 1000000000 different framework options.

education, lots and lots of hype, in the last year, which is probably 9% of respondents

Yeah. Yeah. I don't need them is really what it comes down to. What what's wild to to me about this is that for all the hype around signals, it's only 26

Sick pick. Hey. I I feel like I have a lot of sick picks because there's some of them that I wanted to share or wait until you were back because I thought I felt like you would specifically appreciate them. 1 of the cool things that I got was a digital and I don't know Node digital JS the right word. A a rechargeable

middleware of sticking data on the request.

Wes? Still Heroku is still number 20 number 5 at 25%.

Man, it just goes to show you, if you could get enough market share,

But in bash, you can simply pipe to reaction episode. We do 1 of these every single year, and I realize it's quite a ways into 2024

give them the blood of my firstborn child to get an account on there. But I I do have a server on Hetzner now, and it's it's really nice. So I'm a big fan of Hetzner because I have an Yarn an ARM based server on there, and it it's super slick for really cheap. Yeah. That's great. What else is on here? Azure Google Cloud 1918. I think

yeah. That's kind of that's kind of interesting. Programming and technical tools. And then 33% consulting and Vercel. That makes sense. Right? You you you build apps for clients,

So roll down is an attempt to, essentially, have a next generation version of roll up built in Rust,

33% on Lambda,

it's so funny. We'll we'll talk about this in another episode because I built a little font serving service to host our licensed fonts in a way that we didn't have to put them in the repo.

26% and Yeah. I'm going to say React touches everything. Everything's related to React.

or something. They're super cheap, charges with the USB c.

Yeah. Interesting.

What would you say the number 1 missing feature in JavaScript? I I didn't look at it yet. Okay. Number 1 missing feature, because you can run as many apps as you want on that.

these days. Yeah. And I haven't for a while. And and, honestly, I I don't necessarily get the grumbling about it. To me, it's like TypeScript is a fancy linter that helps me out when I need it.

It doesn't run it's not electrical, but it runs on butane, which you gotta refill it every couple months. But my wife loves it because she lights a lot of candles, me tell you. Roll up alternative?

yeah, then it's difficult to deploy. But, that's interesting. So many so many respondents said deployment given that You Node, I know a lot of this stuff happens offline. So or off of

give you cheap and free hosting

Yeah. What's up with this?

I I think a lot of people also don't realize that they are running common JS at the end of the day because a lot of these build tools will still put out CommonJS.

anymore.

if it was just a web request, I would have the request from the client would be the same as the Vercel. And now I gotta convert it to it's not even an option, to choose, to see because,

trying different things, and then that's it because there's a lot of options. People are actually trying things Node, but, like, it's cool. And and HTMX showing up here at a 5%.

JS basically kinda stayed the same the past couple of years, but gone down overall. Positivity for Svelte has gone up. Yeah. I was gonna say that. What's the only 1 that has gone up every single year? So it's like

all of my Vite.

Okay. Cool. Okay. And, oh, that last 1, not that you shouldn't use those. They're they're great libraries, and And the biggest pain point is for

form actions a shot over the next year or so.

it, like, will always work. Right? Especially when it's windy. You know? Like, you don't have to worry about the wind blowing it out. That's always super annoying with those crappy little barbecue lighters.

and I don't even have any of my own websites on it. I've got my wife's site on it, and my dad has, like, 8 different sites on it. And I still pay for it every single year. You know? Like, that's why Bluehost had such a high I remember they're giving people a $100

usage goes down. But positivity JS is kind of remained flat for quite a while and even has, like, a small uptick. So I I wonder, like, how this eventually translates to usage.

on there. We are all out of Yetis, which we realized we were selling the YETI's for cheaper than you can buy a YETI in the store.

is kind of tricky, especially because

that are are saying this type of thing. Yep. Yeah. It is a common sentiment, and I think you get that from that 10% decrease in people liking using React. But, also, like, we talk all the time about choice overload. To me, that the numb that being the number 2 problem is kind of a React problem

We got hats coming too. I just ordered the hats. It's gonna be very similar to this 1, except

The jam

Oh, yeah.

middleware, So I'd be curious to see this

Yeah. I just got a bit into Cloudflare

Redwood are the are the only 3 something on my desk, and it's it's it hurts the audio. Right? And my kids have all these, For sale, very close behind at 45%.

wrote in Cloudflare workers.

I think so. If you if you click on over to state management and you just kinda peruse the actual answers, a lot of people are saying obviously, state management. A lot of people are saying dealing with forms but, oh, I'm actually surprised by this JS that Cloudflare Workers is almost the same as server, and I realized, like, oh, I gotta pay twice because I had a back end and a front end. And I was like, a VPS is kinda better,

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff written in Python. Yeah.

50 7% of respondents said types. Number 2,

94% Still coming in

browser JavaScript. Weird. I don't know if that's that that doesn't feel like Why would that good information. Yeah. I know. That's that's crazy. But Maybe people just aren't thinking about, oh, you're doing it. Yeah. Like, the browser is a runtime. Yeah. 22%

p b copy, 8 years ago, and I'm getting it fixed next week. And, I just got it fixed this morning. So What?

number 1 on the podcast once again, guys.

they say

Okay.

it's really nice.

By far, the highest 1 is React, which has gone up from 81 to 84.

companies And if you fidget at your desk, Alright. Let's what do we got next? Non JavaScript languages. Okay. Don't did you don't look at this. I wanna I want you to guess. K. What are the top

or collecting those around or any of that stuff. So there's a ton of them on Amazon or whatever. I'll link to the 1 that I got. But, man, I've been using this thing all the time. It's 1 of those, like, little cheap cheapo gadgets you can get that you could just have around the house and never have to worry about having

out, but they almost all have gone up so much that, like, they're not it's not that data's not coming from anywhere else. Right? Maybe those are people that are are coming from Drupal or WordPress or something like that because it goes all the way back to 2016 where at the time, only 52%

but the rest of them have all gone up, which is all pretty interesting to me. I don't know if it's just more people

19 and Vue was 10. Right? It's very small percentage of people who are even using a framework at that time, and now it's seems like almost everybody is. Yeah. And and here's a little interesting tidbit because you can view by usage awareness, interest, retention, and positivity.

I don't know. III couldn't tell you Deno.

That's really cool. We're having the Tubi folks on, which they build

the express version, you know, and and that's a bit of a pain. Yeah. It's it's interesting to see Nest at number 2 here. I always figured Nest was a little bit more niche, but it it does a little bit more for you. It it's definitely 1 of those ones that the Angular folks are all definitely on, so that tracks because Angular has a lot of usage.

standard,

for React, Vercel is 9 on the pain point. And what's funny is that, like, Vercel makes everything really easy. The problem with that is that it makes everything really easy in a way that could potentially cost you a lot of money later on,

have apps in express

alright. Python, a lot of AI.

81%

I've been moving it to a single storage, which allows you to share data between at 11%, on Vercel Edge. Oh, here we go. 16% on Cloudflare Workers.

Let's talk about meta frameworks unless you wanna unless you have more there. That's exactly what I was gonna go to. So Let's do it. Major jump in Next. Js

It's Especially with kids. Like, I I do not wish that on anyone. There's nothing more frustrating than being delayed, let alone with kids. So Oh, yeah. Brutal. Yeah. It was brutal. But I'm back.

and Bash.

because we get a user misery score to say, like, well, this page is being hit by a lot of people, and it's very slow. Therefore, this page has a lot of user misery.

is Veet.

I think, like I don't know anybody that's running BUN in production. Have you do you know anyone? the 2023

pipe operators are in here.

in programming and technical tools.

So maybe sometimes these number 23.

They run state of CSS, state of HTML. The HTML 1 this year was super interesting because you think, like, and you have this beautiful chain.

We met,

17, 000 marketing sales and analytics tools. I would have thought that would be a bit higher. I think I think people who

The road map's super interesting if you wanna give the road map a, a check because the it's it's moving quite along. And, I I think it's 1 of those projects that we're we're gonna hear a lot about over the next, I don't know, next year or so. That's my big big bold prediction.

And

let me tell you. There is no performance issues with Vite. Excessive complex

is AWS.

that or or actually run into it. Right? Like, my website is our websites are fast as hell. You know? And I've got caching in place and and things like that. The only reason why I wanna move off of it, Express now is because Scott of the new stuff using a fetch Wes, send a fetch request from the client to the server. Oh, now I gotta like,

choice overload, these are all things that we've been hearing all the time.

React. Yeah. Yelled it. Yes. And most loved library. Words to technology with the highest proportion of positive opinions. Vite

React specific issues account for 17 I have no idea. C warp. We just talked about C sharp. C warp, number 4. Actually, I had

So they're all Node, JavaScript runtimes.

V, I'm going to say Next. Wes.

And lit is kind of, like, pain points here. Configuration, obviously, being the the biggest 1 of Yeah. With Webpack. All of them. Config's always gonna be a a thing.

features coming up, and,

PETA chip.

and then the positivity the issues

You know, you'd probably have to say PHP, obviously. Yeah. Number 2, 31%.

is maybe a potential precursor for usage in the future. Because if you do this on. Positivity

And and moving off of that For real. Health care, media, government, social media, cybersecurity,

VPS. They're, like, whole app platform thing I have not really dove into at all. Yeah. I I tried it once when I was trying to deploy Yeah. And so excessive complexity, number 2. Number 3 is deployment. This to me, honestly, feels like a Next. Js issue as well because I don't find many of these frameworks to be difficult to deploy.

versus The rest of them are I I think the thing is people want.

and that is you might have seen me playing with it. It's called a monkey noodle.

the Pages router.

for pain points here, including the app router being a big thing, the caching Next JS 13. I I have heard a ton of things about the app router being a pain. I don't know much about the App Router myself. I haven't I don't know what's different about it. But Yeah. It's

Yeah.

Let's get into So apps HTML, like, what? You got a new tag? You know? But Does that mean that

am surprised to see that at least Go isn't higher than Bash. Although, I I do write a fair amount of Bash. I guess if if you think of it JS, like, these are languages of people who write JavaScript

should

And you never have to worry about it running out of gas

I'll tell you why I'm I'm not off of Express. ESLint work on adapter, I Wes, you could call it, and it worked really well. There was still some, like halo JS is probably the closest thing to it.

Veet, you got it.

no issues with Vite in there for me.

these GitHub issues. So it'd be really interesting to see what is actually going on. If if you're someone out there and you know the status of of what's going on, leave a leave a comment or hit us up on on Twitter or whatever. I'm I'm very interested to know what the status of this

It's not, though. Like, I my website JS fast as hell. You know? Like, yeah, you can look at the the graphs and see that there's That

Syntax.

You can light Yeah. For real. Hey. You know, it is it's wild to see that Heroku's ahead of Cloudflare

Highest retention awarded to the technology with the highest percentage of returning users.

on as well on on things, but I find myself reaching for them less and less, not because I don't like them, because I I don't need them.

for all kinds of things as well. It's very fast. Right? So it uses a combination of these 2.

like, to sort of understand and actually read the respondents that people have have said,

I feel like I should know these last ones. But yeah. Yeah. Number 3,

Like, probable I I would I would expect React to go straight and the rest to go up because people are saying, ah, you know what? Maybe I should try something else library authors who still need to publish these types of things,

the official changes thread Wes last updated,

What are the other languages that they will reach for? And Yeah. Yeah. Go, Bash, Rust, those are things that you reach for when you need tooling in that area.

they they go through the stages where they say, okay. You know what?

Yeah. Yeah. CJ was schooling me a bit. Alright.

Man. Ruby number 10.

49%.

in terms of, you know, people's fatigue about JavaScript frameworks and how they feel about them. So, you know, it's obvious that this stuff is a real problem, but it's interesting to see it being laid out like this.

be cognizant of the fact that, hey. The survey is a result of the people who responded to the survey, not a result of

You know? at the Swag Store. Go to century dot shop or go to syntax.fm if

I've never hosted anything on GitHub pages, so I don't understand this 1. But yeah. I do. But it has to be unless you're using their, like, weird Ruby

we moved around the whole episode. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The video. Yeah. Another thing is, 16%, V test. Most write ins awarded to the item with the most write in answers. Okay. So this 1 can't be beat.

and staging URLs, all that nice stuff.

he's like, c sharp

What's interesting here is that almost all of them have gone up. So Angular went down, and has gone down year over year. Since 2018, it was at 56, and now it's at 45%.

and it still has gone down over the years. Gatsby JS wild. We've talked about this a couple times, but just the the come up and the slide down in the Gatsby world has been it's called next on pages,

Excessive complexity, specifically tomorrow at 8:15 AM, we get to the gate. Oh, the the flight doesn't have a crew or a pilot. It's postponed again. You're just like,

results.

which JS, like, Cloudflare's

like, $15

Sure. 17% ecommerce and retail. That's something I think we don't talk about enough. It's, like, how big

Which which 1? Like a front 1? Yeah. Well, the the front 2 ones. I chipped out another Stacy's giant in increase in usage

Now let's go off and draft the pnpm. And that's that's what takes the longest JS what does this look like? What happens in this case? What are all the test cases? So maybe it's in a spot what are warp what are people actually using versus Angular

staying stagnant, to 64%, fight.

state of JS survey. Let's kick it off with to see I think Strappy, 80% TypeScript. Skewed way more to TypeScript than I was expecting. Yeah. Yeah. I remember last Yarn, we were surprised that pnpm every single year, put themselves in that first 1. You know? Like, if you work for a company that builds an app for the front end framework stuff because I always find this the the most interesting.

once you got stuff on there, man, Yes.

And lock in is number 13 on the pain point.

Yep. Let's talk about back end frameworks, which is interesting because Express is still king. 73%

if you want an app to run on all these TVs, they're all built in JavaScript.

use React.

go away for a while because they want the CDN. They want the caching. They want the instant deployment, the the Git previews it goes, like, right here? Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's called the 5 panel. Mhmm. So it's it'll be a little less clumpy right here, which is this is a this is a tester. So got some cool stuff coming down the pipe. Go to syntax.fm

The top 5, do I have to guess them in order?

torch lighter, which is I think it's meant for lighting cigars.

Foregoing anything of the you know, being able to move back to Node or or even to Deno.

You know what? What's funny about how that these these comments about Jamstack relate is that, like, I've been doing more what you could call Jamstack now than I did even back when Gatsby was at its peak. I'm I'm like it could be the hipster in me, but I've moved fully into, like, alright.

previous years

Immutable data structures, those are all a lack of signals, which is an interesting 1. You can just use signals. I mean, you don't have to use, And they're,

do you do you think people who write Cloudflare Workers think that they're writing Cloudflare code? Because in my head, I just think that I'm running, if you need some sort of something to do with your hands while you're while you're working, check out grab a monkey noodle.

Alright. Thanks for tuning in. Peace.

lighter, and it just has a little electricity burst between like, a little taser between 2 posts.

GitHub Pages, number 3.

Yeah. And it's just a like, a lot of times we say, like, hey. Why is there it's not Vercel level. It's not as as like, oh, wow. This just works, you know, and all this nice integration, but

static site builder,

Okay. But insurance is big. Remember?

98% doing front end dev. That doesn't track with the JavaScript runtime ones we had earlier.

It Yeah. But, honestly, this is such

increases the choice overload. It also increases the excessive complexity because now you're wiring all these things together

Yeah.

August 2022.

I built a a whole Next. Js site, and I used all of the caching features. I used React Vercel components. I used, like, a good chunk of the Next. Js features, and I used

Yeah. You Node, it's not it's it's not surprising to see it ahead of, like, some of the smaller smaller guys like, you know, Fly dot io and DigitalOcean.

Edge and serverless run times,

going all in on that, and I'm, you know Yeah.

that's super fast and will eventually

I don't know, JavaScript code. JavaScript. Yeah. I I wouldn't call it Node.

Oh, yeah. I think it was Veet last year too, wasn't it? Scott be Veet. Yeah. Most adapted technology. I'm gonna say bun.

I'm checking back. Feeling good. ESLint ready. And you know what else is ready? Our code base because it uses Sentry to track all of our errors and exceptions. That's right. We make sure that we can solve anything as it comes up. But not only that, we can fix our our, performance problems before they even become problems

or you're locked in now to using it and and being on that as part of your platform. Right? You're you're you're locked in to that being part of your platform.

of the response, which is wild to me. I get there's a lot of people who have built on Express. It's it's I'm still on Express, and I'll tell you what. Wow.

to 71%. So positivity for React has gone down by a whole 10%.

I've been moving

almost my entire career.

or or we'll take a look at it next year of respondents Number 2, 96% is Vite Wes or Vite test.

You're gonna say bun. I'm gonna say,

Oh, that's awesome. I This is kinda interesting. Where does the JavaScript actually run? it's once it is working,

lighter.

together, and it Deployment of Next.

a standardized web request. It's not a re it Yeah. It's a it's an express Wes. And now I wanna move Compare it. Everything.

on. You can go listen to that episode. It's syntax.fmforward/574,

They're 57, so they're Scott, like, little little, but, like, they're little. And they slept on the floor in the airport with me just because Delta didn't wanna cancel the flight because they didn't wanna give people, like, hotel reimbursement. So they were just like, oh, we'll tell you in 20 minutes. We'll tell you in 20 minutes. And it's, like, 2 AM, whatever.

oh, there there was an actual literal and roll up within Vite. Interesting.

And they're like, alright. It's postponed until tomorrow. Tomorrow

Next thing you know, there's police protecting the, the Delta employees who were awful, by the way.

losing their minds, and it got heated. I don't I don't necessarily know what happened, but it was a kerfuffle.

I had a,

I often I really like these surveys because it it sort of gives you a peer into our industry which is the request, the response.

of what are people using, what Yarn people like, what what's sort of on the uptick, what's on the downtick, 5

2 knuckleheads talking about on a podcast every single week? everybody wants That's a great question. I don't several small apps running in in Deno, which is at 15%, is wild. I would have thought that everybody

No. No. No. And we both had to deplane after being on the plane waiting for, like, an hour. So so we had to deplane,

already. But, Scott of JS, which is a survey that goes out to sort of the JavaScript community and ask questions about JavaScript features, frameworks, libraries, resources, all that type of stuff, this, and see if he's using, like, AI or something like that to sort of collect this data 0, yeah. But instead of being like, what's your favorite framework? 1st 1st checkbox, is it React? You know? Now it's just free form input, and you can click on

out I had a ordeal getting getting home from I know. It sucks. It's wild.

and then the other the other flight was a bunch of people that were going to go on a cruise, and so they were gonna miss their cruise. And so the the people across the way from us that that they they were just, like, basically

It was yeah. For you?

With kids.

from Canada. With me JS always is Scott. How are you doing today, Scott? Hey. I'm doing good. Back in back in action over here.

There was there was 2 airplanes that were, like, leaving at the same time, us and another 1, and we both got on the planes.

The police had to be called.

Welcome to Syntax. Today, we've got our state of j s 2023