Own your own PaaS

config based.

Yeah. If if Amplify is as good as Vercel, Vercel would not in business. Right? There's a reason we all use Syndax uses Vercel. I use it for a lot of my projects.

so we need to try it just yet. But right now, we wrote a if you go into the syntax repo, there's a file called Why do I need this dotjs?

There's a lot of discussion around

on just like a PC under someone's desk

like, does a lot of cool things and would be very nice, But it does Everybody gets it on there, and then they roll the rug out from under you. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And absolutely. I think that is a big concern here. And and I think one of the things you even mentioned about, like, WordPress hosting. Right? We all host

These are just, like like, literally run your own server. It's not serverless. It's not I installed the COOLIFY on the droplet myself, and it was 1 it was a 1 com it was a copy and paste command, hit enter, and then log in. And then but you sent me a URL that had COOLIFY in it. I I thought, oh, he's paying for something here. Yep. How come the URL has COOLIFY in it?

here. Let us know. We will pass them along to David because I'm sure we're very curious too. We're gonna pick his brain.

at syntax f m rather than forward slash channel Forward slash u c y.

AWS or a rapper. And everyone's gonna say, Wes, that's what Amplify is.

Ludoku. So

easily. It has no UI JS far as I could tell,

or,

have contradictory information or have found better or different things,

host your whole infrastructure on this?

and that's good enough. Let me tell you, the the the app that I have running on my COOLIFY server loads in Fifty milliseconds.

starts at £4 and then it gives me a big old list of resources to install.

do you have any sick picks?

Cubero. That's okay.

Docu's probably not for you. But if you're the type of person who likes to do things through a CLI, it it is very Heroku like in that sort of way. I think it's a good option.

That is a concern. I have not had to get there yet, but I can see

You go and get a server somewhere, or, like, I'll walk into my server room, and I have a, a little

these on a VPS somewhere. I've I've been seeing a lot of people talk about installing some of these on Yarn. Seems to be like a big topic.

Oh, I like that.

basically, COOLIFY is the controls.

Let me tell you. Here's how

If you would like to play Pokemon or web service, it could be a continuation of one of our fan favorites JS a, the

AWS e c 2 is their

You know? Who's the 1? which to me, If I'm working on a bunch of projects, that's super compelling.

and it just keeps your food crease and then, zoop,

every single company I'm gonna be Scott I o, Wes, we should have the creator of Coolify on here to talk Yeah. A little bit. He's been, Yeah. Absolutely.

super fresh. And I've just been, like my wife is so sick of me showing her new things that I can grip stick. She's like, I get it. They're they're nice clips. It's not that exciting. But I was like, Scott will care. I'll show Scott.

for your docu

like tunneling similar to how,

Acorn, Node,

Wes what are these? all the way upstairs because it is a video podcast now, and I wanna be able to share So the GitHub Pages, you can obviously host just HTML, but they also support this thing called Jekyll, which will is a static site builder, and it will build the website for you.

I wish that there was some sort of self hosted

picks and,

know that a file exists like a SST or a flight control, which is commercial level are in themselves Docker images,

I'm a GUI kinda guy.

Okay. So let's get into these players. There there's a huge amount of variability

you can And, like,

The biggest downside with any of these Casetas,

gives you a g a a GUI, lets you do one click to install a bunch of stuff. And it is it's basically saying, hey, man. We know this stuff can get expensive, Yeah. And and I think that's why people are going with with Yarn. What's interesting is that, like, Hetzner kinda seems to be the The cheapest to best option there, but I found them to be kind of awful to work on. And and, you know, a lot of people really like them. So I'm not I'm not talking trash about Hetzner, but as a American,

that people have different problems than they have. Yeah. They have different stack setups than they have. Like, Some people would say, oh, yeah. Like, you could just use,

Yeah. I know. And I think if if we had doctor, I I let me tell you something actually really interesting too before we we move off of this This topic Wes.

in its own droplet, in its own server that you could manage its resources separately. So I I think it the the UI for this stuff is really nice, and it ends up being really a good experience. A much better experience than I was expecting from you know, that you could get just by hucking some cash

I will say, though, it's not without its problems. I mean, we had situations be we've had situations because Running serverless, obviously.

What a world. I'm gonna go back to my variables in JavaScript.

Coolify I did use a lot of hosting my own stuff via NGINX or even Apache. And for the most part, I just did what it told me to. They they weren't necessarily things I got too deep into.

AMI. I don't know what AMI is. If you can get it running on e c two, like, that might be so We all had to figure out how to be Sysadmins

I, Hey. But while you're there, smash that like button, ring the bell, cook thumbs up on all the videos, and tell Wes and I that we both look handsome in the comments. We would all love that. Tell us who's handsomer, though. Alright. Well, you don't

Of course, there's a CLI, and there's APIs for interacting with it. So it looks like somebody wrote a,

gives you Docker Swarm,

servers in the US but not

I Wes seeing how mister Beast doesn't link any of his YouTube things anymore because, apparently I don't know. The these, like the Algo. People talking about the algorithm, pancake mix or any any sort of plastic or cellophane bag.

and we could not, for the life of us, figure out. It looks like SvelteKit. I saw something come over GitHub. The SvelteKit adapter

I then get to see all of my repos. I select the repo I want. I tell them my build command. I click go, and it has the exact same style of Tabs interfaces. Alright. You got your e and v variables right there. You got your build logs. You have automatic deployment on push. You have SSL Node domains without having to do anything to set it up with. It, like, automatically gives you the SSL just like any of these things. And most of these platforms will. Let me be clear about that.

You bet. Yes. K. Node sec.

Doku JS one that I saw when people were talking about side projects. This is potentially hosting your own cache servers or stuff like that. Edge of your bed. More like it.

alternative.

those app packs.

for hosting side projects. You could use you could possibly foresee

SSL for for free and easy,

can I can I go run and get it, actually?

function or whatever that people are talking about as being the thing you need. Sometime, You've all used these services where you could hit and, is is pretty effortless.

Grip So a grip stick is That doesn't sound right. The like, I mean, this is as seen on TV. The best way to seal And lots of other scary things.

deeper things

some cookies in their lunch, and they didn't eat the whole pack. So what I did is I just grabbed it and threw a little one on this morning.

with the audience.

oh, dude. You got a Cubero?

This one is Kubernetes based. Again, I I don't think you need to know Kubernetes to use this.

Jekyll was running 8 different kinds of light switches because I've tried them all. And,

So Kubero is certainly an option. I don't think you need to get too deep into Kubernetes. It's it's basically you're just using a either a Curl command to install it. You're you're logging in. You're getting going.

new resource, You you you connect your DNS records to it. You have your environmental a, a shared Yarn 64 based CPU But if you wanna host your own pass Without being out on your ass, you have to have Woah.

available because not that readily available JS the problem. Oh, it's just starting to pop up.

platform as a service.

picture is for Dockerstorm

does scare me a little bit. It does seem like the feature set for this thing is really good. And last but not least is Acorn. Acorn has a Pretty website, but it's, Hit us up anywhere. We're we're happy to to have that discussion. In fact, we're gonna be having David Flanagan on who does a lot of Kubernetes. I mean, that's, like, his thing.

sick

youtube.comforward/ anything, is is the price. So, again, slowly but surely, or if you're doing a whole bunch at once and you have the Cash to spend on it. I have found, as far as all smart light switches go, the Casitas really do seem to be the best.

Scaleways. Another one I've been suggested is RackNerd, although I haven't looked at them at all.

like, 100 of 1,000 of dollars on servers, Oh, alright. I think that's it. This I'm I'm really excited about this. I kinda wanna try to spin up a a little instance of it. And we should say, also, like, people are always like, oh, you're Can I ask a question for the listener? How is that different than Docker? PHP server,

Especially if the point of doing this is save money. That's Exactly. I think if you're the type of person who is getting deeper into this stuff and wants the most out of it, Docu seems like a great option. It does support Yarn 64, and the reason why I'm saying that is because Piku You might have to learn

This

Yeah. Like,

shameless plugs. Wes,

by far, the worst ones are the Wyze, unfortunately, which kills me because I love Wyze as a company, but they always

Four gigs of RAM, 40 gigs of disk space, and 20

like, a ngrok or CloudFlare tunnel works, where it gives you an external Deno, And so Coolify I'm just looking. They have a pricing page.

Rather than need to be running serverless? Is that really I have my GitHub connected.

Wes CLI. Some of them have paid add ons.

Yeah. And you might be out there hosting I don't know. There's so many people that get so insecure about other tools. Like, bro, you don't have to use it. Nobody's telling you to use it. I'm just exploring this thing or talking about these ideas. It doesn't mean Or

Apparently,

because I'm a salty

You know, this one's maybe not for you. It is that about material design? How every time I hit a material design app, I'm like, oh, this thing's gonna Suck. Yeah. Like Well Why? Or or is it just is it just tired? Is it a tired UI? Tired. Yeah. Even Node Assistant uses Material UI, and I'm just like,

You got bun working on COOLIFY. Continue.

Coolify is the one that I've been seeing suggested the most and is the one that I've used the most out of all of these.

What are these doing besides making this stuff not fall out of the bag when you pick it up? Like, they're not keeping it fresh just by folding over the bag or,

Mhmm. It's going to be interesting because, like, you're not gonna throw that on a serverless function because

Some people are even offering hosting on a Mac, specifically. I think it's, like, using Mac Minis or something, but

These things do require Kubernetes knowledge or one of these more intense Services or getting into Docker Swarm. I don't even know what the higher availability So Man, if I wanna spin up JS I haven't found

It came out a long time ago. And so I think that's really just it, is it just looks old, and Platform as a service that are either open source, paid, these

And,

At syntax f m. They have a new URL style structure. They change this all around. It's And you know what, Wes? There you know, I'm I've already opened the browser and started searching for them.

that hosts I You might not need to know Kubernetes. I have JS a note, but it feels like you might.

the more intense use case

why does Amazon not build a Vercel? You know? And if the if they would put out

Yeah. Yeah. You gotta stay open minded.

On GitHub Pages.

local Raspberry Pi

Experimenting with this stuff, and Wes has not used it. So this is what I have found.

And, let me just tell you, all I had to do was to say BUN install whatever, and COOLIFY picked it up and automatically own thing that will do the auto build for you. Right? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And and we're we'll be going Deep on what some options here and maybe, So that's really reasonable for an Yarn server.

I have been So for me, I'm like, I'm typing in my my text boxes and hitting save. I know that Is it going to, you know, not be the way that many of you like to work in, like, your packs and stuff like that? And that's cool. Very useful.

I I I I've I'm trying to be nice to a lot of these. They're open source software. But, unfortunately, this one, actual domain in there. I pointed my Cloudflare to it based on the DNS instructions I was given, yeah, I care. And I

Scott station, Synology, running there. Right? Like, I could install these on my Synology and literally host it in my house if I wanted to? Yes. Absolutely. And in fact, there's there's a lot of people that do do that. But you can also just install

having I come into my Coolify.

this one has something to do with Kubernetes, and it absolutely does.

which is fantastic.

this one seems like it might be a little bit more Hobbyist project type of situation. You wanna throw something up onto your

while Wes or yesterday. All day at work, I was coding with it on except for when, Randy and I had our meeting, I took it off for that.

who knows what's going on there? But, you know, once I I just copied and pasted my

And so does Cubero. Honestly, Or or Heroku even before that. Heroku JS maybe a little bit less simple than Netlify. Netlify's super simple. And then you had companies like DigitalOcean, Render, and Vercel Coming in a little bit later to try to, I,

it's not like, the the opposite of the edge, which is high availability running in data centers close to the user.

scale up and down. It's just something that will

And so that's really where I think Coolify shines is that the, UI, even though the CSS is in flux, the creator has mentioned that it's It's in flux right now. It still looks really good compared to most things out there. It feels modern. And for the most part, it feels like using a Vercel type of situation Wes, again, it's not like a serverless platform. But when you Tolinski on the show, plus on a a container to scale it horizontally or vertically, those types of things. You can Add more resources quickly. You can,

Heroku or self hosted whatever. And, for $20 a month just to have an account to turn the button back on.

And I'd be interested to see if people are like, okay. Well, Yeah. It really depends. We are having issues with the,

smart switches Opposed to, like, I've used smart bulbs in the past, whatever.

definitely scary.

Next Node is CapRover.

I have been using it daily. I Did not want to take it off last night, my Vercel dashboard and seeing in The red and green, The Piku? Oh, Piku. That's like a Star Wars thing. Piku? Yeah. Obviously, Piku Cuber sounds like a Mario.

CapRover, DOKU is a CLI based. If you would like a UI I select the project I want.

We're like, to or you have more questions, reach out to us. By by all accounts, I'm a hobbyist who just started

has,

what is called a GripStick.

Yes. Do not close this laptop. It runs the entire company.

it it's important that we all learn to to host our own servers You're so cheap and whatever.

Yarn into, Alright.

these are this is not software to deploy to AWS,

the hosting platform if they support these types of things.

I'm gonna be actually knowing what to do with Kubernetes.

idea, Or you can get a one click install with some of these services. And and so we'll be talking a little bit about some of these services in just a second here. So, maybe hold on hold on your horses just a little bit. But in in reality, Pi cluster.

host the whole open source part of COOLIFY as well. Is that right? Yep. Yep. Yep. And then What are you are you paying for the controls, or did you actually install COOLIFY on the DigitalOcean droplet yourself? but a lot of the good Node assistant plug ins

It might be something I eventually get into here. Who knows? I'm going down a a slippery slope of hosting my own stuff. Next thing you know, installed BUN on the system for me. So I didn't have to install BUN. I didn't have to tell it Tolinski Bun. It installed Bun. So,

Who knows?

the serverless

He and I have been chatting a bit on Twitter, and he's a really cool guy. And he really seems to love this project that he's working on. So wonder if there's, like, a VM image I can install, because I hit that with Node assistant as well as I initially installed home assistant as a Docker image,

And if you have any questions about this stuff, by all means, let us know, I don't know.

Yeah. Maybe.

perfect last.

Oh. I pointed it to my repo. The words you Yarn saying right Node. Sorry.

Jekyll.

And the way that it works is that you just fold it over.

So, my final thoughts, I tried Coolify. I liked it. It was easy to get up and running. I'm going to continue to host stuff there. I may move it off of DigitalOcean droplet and get going in no time. Now I'm still a little bitter about the CSS tricks thing, so I might be looking at other places to host. But

server full offering. Let me double check that, actually. How to deploy Coolify on AWS It's really good. People

yeah, I got I got Bun running about This is tossing up you know, paper usage

Getting my foot in the door into this space JS being like, yeah. You might potentially have to learn some of this stuff, at least to a little bit.

This one seems really nice.

man, what a what a nice little thing there you Scott. Yeah. Big fan of this. Well, I don't, you know, I don't necessarily have anything super interesting, but, you know, I will sick pick a month.

instance

have lots of opinions on things because it it makes

in the cloud, You know, my there's Scott any better than just crinkling it up and rolling it up, but just

render.com

someone cannot

Man, that's great. I gotta say, it's it's super good. Nice. And one of the cooler things about COOLIFY too is that, yeah, you can do, like, a Docker Warp with it so you can get that That, you know, more more secure or or So it's not just like it's not just a toy it's, like, really super easy to be so efficient. Databases in there too. Bro, you can throw anything in here, and most of these have, like, Node click services to do so,

to to process and run. You need a long run running service for that. Right? sits in front of your application to run away from you Wes all of a sudden you realize, holy crap. I'm spending a couple $1,000 to host these side projects.

little less pretty, but that doesn't, you know, that doesn't disqualify anything. It it does all the stuff you wanted to do. Gets you going with a,

and the package we were using just assumed that the WASM file would be beside it. But the way that Vercel bundles things is if it doesn't

terabytes of bandwidth.

Yeah. Not only do I care. I'm gonna order some, and I definitely see the utility. I've always wondered to myself with chip clips, a that's pretty dang fast. Okay? So, you know, people talk about you need this, you need that. Hey. You you don't Always need this, and that sometimes you just need what works. Right?

I know that didn't exist then, but it uses the old school material design But Yeah. Me too. Either way, You know, like, you wanna host a WordPress site real quick for friends and Sanity. They Node something.

GitHub actions, and you want it to run on a Mac, it's, like, 10 times the cost.

No notes.

but I found that I linked to the comment section specifically.

it itself as,

the way that works is chip clips. I hate chip clips. You Node? You you put the clip on, it falls off or whatever. Pain in the butt. So these things

I, like many other people, have been working in BUN or alternative run times. And you get to the situation where you're like, Does Netlify support Bun? Does render support Bun? You're at you're at you're beholden if you like a a UI,

tunnel to your actual server in case there's like a what's the word And it's like, I I can't believe how awesome they Yarn. And

In my experience, has the best UI of any of these.

And,

you connect your GitHub They do sound like Pokemon. Which of these sounds the most like Pokemon? Cap Rover or Probably Daku.

it makes them look like they they know what they're talking about. But and he has they get expensive really quickly, especially now that the VC money is drying up. It seems like everybody is jacking, That that was it. It was like, is this a carbon fiber road bike or a Npm package for maintaining dependencies? Railway

a good solution in the Yarn space that all of a sudden these

e c 2. Yeah. E c so it is e c 2. Okay. Let's see. I mean, let me confirm here. Con preconfigured or century.ioforward/

Just like a funny story is, where Yeah. He's he's he's kind of a yeah. He's definitely a delinquent. I would I would say that's it. But

Wes, here is a game for our, live show, Pokemon or Wes service?

I'll shamelessly plug the Syntax YouTube channel. Check it out. Just go to YouTube, type in syntax podcast or

or Swarm. I I have no idea. I have not looked into it.

You just look like a jerk in a lot of times. And that's it's fine to have opinions, but there's there's a there's a line there.

Kuber or Kuber,

how to set up a server. The Heroku has made all of their sort of images

So

your And then the VM can then spawn many Docker images. Yeah. What a world.

Sweet. Yeah. I'm gonna try throw this on my on my NAS, and I'm try trying to look at how to do it, though, because, like, it's not a docker image because it it can make Docker images.

Node

It's funny that you say that because I was before you joined, I was talking to Randy about the the Apple episode, and people Let us know their their opinions on on Apple and and the open web.

always lose Wi Fi. And I have a Chester's corn twists? What Yeah. Is that? I don't I don't even know. Do do you have this guy, though? They're like, oh, yeah. To cheetah. Yeah. We have Chester Cheeto, but he's just like the Cheetos guy.

it hasn't been updated in 2 years. I don't know if it's it's any good or not, but,

these smart routines,

The the opposite of that is flight control on SST.

You have to pay $849

You gotta pull it back. It's too close to the camera. I gotta be one of the makeup influencers. There we go.

We had some WASM files that were not referenced anywhere, and

experience that you might be more used to with this. And I think the the thing that I really like the most about it is that I was able to get up and running on a COOLIFY

and go up update our servers, and that's always kinda scary too. Updating anything with the database,

Whatever the Docker config for these JS.

uses Yeah. So a lot here. So these services that you're gonna go through, these are not

I logged in. I created my account, Connected my GitHub. Deployed my site. Really Oh. You you take out half those steps, and it's the same as any other platform as a service. Right? Obviously, the UI, if you click on it, it's a little less Yeah. That was that was a really funny one we did. We should do that one again. One of my favorite segments because writing it is just as fun as experiencing it

are called the GripStick, and you basically just make

MB on here? Do you want to install a Ghost blog? Do you want to install I don't know. Like, Bluehost? I know you hate Bluehost. It's not Bluehost. Don't don't, Bluehost. No. I know. I said Bluehost because I knew I'd, one thing that you used to be able to do very frequently, Heroku used to get, like, 5 free

on on Twitter. In fact, I had to stop talking on Twitter because people are are wild about HTMX.

Kubero.

Some of these feel like they might be for click I don't know. I had no issues getting up and running with my domain on it or even just giving you that quick little domain, which connected again straight To to my box here. So, yeah, I found Coolify to be really, really nice. And and to give you, like, just a generalized

these services are are getting expensive.

Getting things like high availability, n I x packs. Yes.

A firewall.

If you do pay

But I have my home assistant. I have routine setup. My wife hates it because it Shuts off the lights at the kitchen table at 8 o'clock when she's sitting at the kitchen table sometimes.

Well, is it what do we say? It's like a NPM package or, But I gotta say, Yeah. Like So I think there's it's it would be like you're using render versus hosting render yourself.

is basically a Self hosted Heroku

app packs?

so we're gonna make it really easy for you to host your stuff. I found Caprover to be fine. It's not the one I used From my my experience, but based on their docs, it seems like a decent option.

you can host these things in a variety of places, of which can be very cheap. You can host them on a DigitalOcean Render,

all of these could really pass through Pokemon. Cubero sounds like the solving the problems for us if, one, we're still paying Out the butt for it, and it's you know? I mean, because it's not like for sale's cheap.

a month. American.

Wes c 2.

it it makes sense that they would charge $850 Alright. We're adding it. By the way, React Miami, we're gonna be there. So maybe we should add that to React Miami. You should grab tickets to that right now, everybody.

Free open source software that is, you know, doing so much. This JS, like, a a really cool project.

I I I have since moved that off of the, domain. Let me even check that because I I've assigned that an actual domain now. Me even check what that domain was. It's probably doing some, like,

salty man. I one one more thing I'm just. You've been talking about this.

So if that's the type of person you are, which matches the type of person And you'll probably just say, hey. Coolify works for me. It's easy to get going, easy to install, works everywhere, 10 years ago or something at this point. That's wild.

instance, I guess you would call it, for your docu, kind of nice.

because for, like, in a business that's spending, Everybody loves these amazing services that you pay $20 a month, We wanna run it ourselves, but

And so, again, you could It doesn't cost an arm and a leg. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Awesome.

If you

Wes, that's apparently,

within COOLIFY, you could say, hey. Deploy this app to droplet b And run it on droplet b. So that way, it is Dinos, I think they called them.

indicators if something's failed to deploy. I like clicking on that and looking at the logs there. I don't wanna do command line for everything.

config errors and whatever, and I just I Said Scott it after about 4 hours of trying to get it run. So it's probably better now. Yeah. And there's also Wes you'll see NIX packs a lot, Like, I feel like I I might quit my job and be, like, a a salesman for this type of thing because it's so nice. And you can get a pack. And, like, my kid had

I know that's a a trigger for some people.

a, fancy UI or a UI that is, You know, doing a lot for you?

Heroku

I ran I, right, SSH ESLint.

someone else wrote another UI

Yes. And so a Nixpack,

That's usually pretty expensive. If you if you use GitHub,

You have to keep your server up to date still. You know? I don't know. Things have exploits. Linux has exploits or whatever comes up. Whatever you're running your you you still gotta keep this stuff up to date. Yeah. Remember Remember heartbeat? Yes. When was that? 5, 6 years ago, heartbeat came out. And at the time, a lot of people were still managing their own Nginx, I got bun working on COOLIFY.

a PC underneath your desk like the bills on a lot of these hosting platforms, especially if you've got side projects for a 1,000 reads and writes, like, that's a really good point. It's like, I don't know. How am I like, just tell me it's gonna be $20 a month, and then I'll use it. So Wes understand that as Wes, because

or perhaps a Pi cluster.

on sitting on your a laptop sitting on your bed that's serving it out to the world.

going on my own DigitalOcean

is nothing to a lot of companies. But if you're a indie maker, that's that's a big, chunk of change.

DOKU for for

WordPress site, for instance, At a a render server or something? and we'll try to Get those in front of David, somebody who's actually an expert in this area that we can really ask all the questions to.

or a Redis or a MongoDB,

AWS And we're gonna take a look at, like, hosting your own websites,

So it's basically, like, saying, hey. Our servers are good for running AI

sometimes it takes, like, 3 minutes

What I what was the one I just said? The, Scaleways.

MySQL. Just click it. It deploys it, gives you a URL for it, and you can connect to it privately.

it it doesn't get any better, and the software is fast. It's efficient.

Cuber does sound like a Pokemon though too,

but up the rates for that type of thing. So Scott has gone off the deep end,

Seems like PIKU is designed for that and is Docu like. Again, I haven't used it. It JS CLI based. There is no UI for it.

Kubero, Coolify,

So And they they have Yarn 64 servers. Now one thing that I've noticed is that most of these are based in Europe. And what I haven't found

on what that looks like.

a thing or both? Yeah. NPM package or

Did you look into Ludoku at all? with with no no fuss, no mess. So Yeah. I I I'm pretty sure Koolify has an extension called if you ain't got Buns, hon, then it just installs it. Yeah. That's what it is. If you ain't

I need time travel debugging. Alright. What do you need that for? Oh, well, I need it. Actually Wes really handy. Yeah. I know it isn't. I know it's really handy, but it's only really handy when you're dealing with a lot of data,

has has fixed that,

chip bags or, It's just like,

or maybe it is, actually.

I ran a curl command.

but apparently people's experience were going to search it. I know. It's so frustrating. Freaking algorithm.

So it's not as just as easy as logging in and clicking a button oftentimes.

changing all of my pass, why I went back to self hosting. Now I found this not only did I find the blog to be interesting, And, Netlify You know, I I I didn't wanna get too deep into Kubernetes. I wanted to know what it was. I wanted to get my stealth up and running, and I didn't wanna turn this into a, Oh, boy. We're gonna have to, like, really get deep into the weeds. But KuberCloud I I posted a link to a Oh, yeah. Yeah. In in running on Vercel specifically, That said, the configuration with preconfigured

in reality, and or just like like, for example, I'll pick my my bone with render JS I've been on render for probably I I installed this. Do you wanna you install this on on what? Yeah. Probably 2 years ago, I went through this whole,

I like I liked material when it came out, and that was, like,

open source, and Different services can actually use them, Node, Whatever. Yeah.

is the next one. And Piku was inspired by Dohu as a means of supporting Yarn Sanity four to run specifically on a Raspberry

These companies give us free hosting. You know? But the reason we talk about it is because it's it's really interesting. And we do think about everyone who's listening to this type of thing, and

look like it was clearly designed by engineers. So if you're the type of person who requires droplet.

I think that's the best Node. Scott com GitHub People don't necessarily gravitate to it because it is

like, literally asked for blood of my firstborn child to get signed up with a a cloud account there. So and I don't mean literally literally.

Does it cost 64 arms?

Interesting. I wonder if Coolify works with, like, just straight up Because, like, they're they're Yeah. In lots of cases, they're faster at

which server you want any of your services to run on. So even if you have COOLIFY running on droplet a, you could spin up a droplet b And without even doing anything other than connecting the 2,

get into this mode where, hey. I'm building this, so everybody must be building this. When in reality, we're all working on different kinds of stuff Node different different types of projects. And I think it's important to realize, hey. If if it's not Viable for you. That's okay. I just had the same discussion

what's interesting about

or perhaps you're building something that needs actual undo functionality. Node will undo functionality.

And I say this because I have not tried KuberCloud.

We get for sale for free. I Scott I got unlimited Netlify account. I can host everything for free for the rest of my life,

Coolify, which seems like, oh, hey. I wanna just get what I had going with, I have no idea. A lot of these places do offer

Or or I I also think that people think it makes them look smart when they're really opinionated about something. Yeah. Some people really love to argue on Twitter. Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't make you look smart, at at least not to me. You know? Like, maybe for for beginners, it makes you look look really smart. And we've said this many times before. It's like, you often see beginners

I still probably have a third of the house to do still,

And it just copy and pastes the files into the serverless functions before we deploy.

That's it for this episode. Let's get into

Pages

Yeah. I don't I don't get that what you're trying to say there. Okay. Oh, like,

It's, like, $2 for a pack of, like, 8 or something like that. Super cheap, running things. Like, and with all these, like, AI models starting to come out where people are trying to we have a show coming up on running AI models locally.

but I did find the whole thing to be just an interesting read if this is something you have interest in. And, again, we're gonna have David Flanagan on the show who's an expert in in Kubernetes stuff. So if you have any questions Firewall. There's a firewall in the way. Yeah. Firewall. We haven't heard that term in a long time.

But Coolify is the controls for architecting and and controlling your your actual servers. And you can either run it run the controls on their server for $5 a month, There's not a lot of Cloud Yarn 64 hosts. Oh, Like, army mean, like like, the processor that's in the MacBooks and in Correct. Chromebooks and

always going to be

you can I got them on AliExpress?

on. So if you're interested in in VR encoding,

I just ran

So, yeah, don't get the wise ones. Sick. Well, shameless plugs. I'm gonna shamelessly plug the syntax YouTube. We're posting We're posting quite frequently, and we're gonna continue to post there. I'm gonna be putting out later today. It'll be very live by the time you hear this. A video on what it's like to code with the VisionPRO

I got BUN. It's working on COOLIFY.

if I wanted. The reason why we talk about this type of stuff is not because I don't wanna pay $20 a month.

or any of these. There's all do DOKU was the webstorm of these Wes there's always 1 person being like, you gotta use DOKU.

we need to deploy it somewhere. So maybe this type of thing is gonna become more popular. And you know what? Some of these, services out there that offer Yarn servers so, like, one of them is Scaleway.

That's good. That's good. I like your arm and I like joke. Okay. Cubero. Let's talk let's talk about Cubero. Based on the name you might be guessing, CLI based. There is no UI for it again, and their docs show you getting up and running with Python. Node

Yeah. That's good. Although, like, search it. I think that helps.

it was not finding the files in the SvelteKit adapter.

The Caseta.

aesthetic. And it honestly, What are you gonna tell them to do? Pay pay $7 a month? Pay $14 a month? So, in this world. Some of these contain UIs. Some of them contain, losing

Your phone, probably.

Regardless of what you do, you bring your own servers.

light switches syntax, actually, is the new URL for us.

like, a meta framework for absolutely everything. And, like, no. People have other some people still need GraphQL APIs because they They have many pieces of data coming in. Like, there's so many different problems and so many different instances that need to be solved that you may not be even considering

slowly but surely Vercel,

is something that they host themselves, hosting your own platform as a service, which is network traffic can't get in. Why am I blanking on this? We are going to be talking about And you warp it to be able to be performant and work well and actually, you know, be much cheaper. Yeah. I I miss the days of I still have a PHP server. I I was laughing the other day is that I have a a Bluehost PHP server, and I'm not hosting any of my own projects.

it's crazy that I was telling Randy how People get angry all the time at at certain things. And if you talk about a certain piece of tech that's not the way they do it, then they get Very angry. And it's I think the the biggest thing is that shows, like, an inexperienced developer JS when

that's fine. But this this thing is really easy. There's, like, really quick add ons to get going with just about anything you want, and that's kind of the thing you're gonna see from a lot of this stuff. Like, if you wanna spin up a RabbitMQ

They'd be like,

I thought it was pretty cool. At the time, I just I just kept hitting, like, little, like, and it knows how to

I have the the Diva, which is the one with the dimmer, and then the Claro, which is just the normal smart switch, or there's the accessory switch. I've been putting these things All over my house, slowly but surely, because they Yarn expensive. So I'll buy 1 or 2 at a time, install it. I still have maybe

Wi Fi setup at our house, so it's not a Wi Fi.

So, again, the challenges here with hosting your own pass So 4 or no. Those are euros. Sorry. That's the euro symbol. It starts at €4 Yes. I know. For the for 2 CPUs,

Something that I I have all over my house now that I've been I probably sick picked this at least once before, and sometimes we do repeat sick picks. But a little bit about Docker and Kubernetes.

But you do get that

it became a very popular feature,

you know, that that's kind of what it does. And you can use Nixpacks with most of these or I'm just here so I don't get fired dotjs.

Kubero

runs Yes. What's the the Ruby based thing that that runs on GitHub Pages if you wanna have, like, a site builder.

I don't know. I I asked what types of interactive things are you doing, And people had the wildest replies.

You bet. I got a really good one for you today. And I I think that actually came from when we had the folks from GitHub on that story. I thought that was really interesting that, like, doku. It's probably Docu if if we're thinking about it because it's Docker. Right? the cheapest way. Generally, Amazon is the cheapest, or you can host it Vercel.

LeDoku.

you know, it It doesn't feel like the option that most people who are, like, just looking for a Netlify alternative wanna pick. So some of these, whether it is Kuber, Yeah. I, you know, I I don't know where it's getting the domain. I just clicked it to generate a Generated domain, which I probably shouldn't have done because I think it automatically saved that generated one.

US based servers. Hetzner has it.

you just straight up need a node server, Do you want to install, Scott AI models.

What's interesting about it is it's it's like some weird generated string, then my I dot my IP address dot s Wes l I p Scott I o. So

Right?

the and they used to be only Node. Js hosting as Wes, no serverless.

sell you the raw cost of using it. Like, AWS, Okay. Okay. So

we love these services.

DigitalOcean's app platform. There's a ton of these things. You know, you kinda get the vibe where you log in, you connect your GitHub, So, Coolify

of, like, if you have a little application,

Heroku,

is not a very good business Node, and you can make a lot more money

it shouldn't

do those in a different way. Vercel's now I think I think Vercel was before Vercel used to be called Zite.

for actually how much compute you're using

We're always looking out for the the podcast listeners and whatnot all while just running on a PC in somebody somebody's desk.

variables in your groups, And then you have a website

you're paying if we wanna throw projects up for free.

Yeah. Exactly. I'm pretty sure they were before

The whole thing goes up onto the Internet With a a custom domain, then you get a free SSL.

Netlify, I think she would diagnose it as just being insecure. Right? These people see something they don't know that much about. They're gonna lash out about it because,

your actual your your application's web server, but NGINX or Caddy or Apache a a little,

at the end of the day,

or NGINX. Is NGINX a server? Is that a correct way to say that, Wes? Yeah. Yeah. NGINX is a a web server that will handle incoming requests and do SSL certificates, and you're not NGINX doesn't actually run your code. It will pass it through to Chester's Yarn twists.

a year for me simply to to do that. And a a lot of these other hosts are also now going in the regard of,

by charging No. No. It's it's not cheap. So, That's, like, the new version of the Heroku

And they they totally flipped it. And Let me tell you. I was at Zite Day when the serverless platform was announced. I spoke with Yeah. Yeah. Man, history in the making, and Yeah. I'm I'm a big fan of those ones as well. I have I probably have, like,

and they recently

and now you have to pay

you

Containers of applications.

And there's a reason we pay up to use it. It's it just works, and it's awesome.

3 or 4 years. I pay them 1,000 of dollars a year, We joke about them getting really expensive. But and you can't run a Docker into Docker. So I had to switch my home assistant to running as a VM.

that is very that pnpm pennies.

tell it which repo you want it to go, you Potentially give it your build commands or where these things are located.

them $20 for everybody who needs to be able to log in per month

online. You didn't have to do anything set up to do that. You didn't have to manage your NGINX server,

Yeah. And and so, Wes, it's funny. You touched on a lot of things I had in the why section in your in your, little rant there, and and we'll go back to some of that stuff. I really appreciate it could get that Sanity, though, because I I agree with you a 100%.

Bingo, bango.

I log in. I pay for however many servers I want. I can auto scale. So I I I say I have 2 servers at a minimum. I can scale up to 5, and then the the traffic that I get, it'll it'll scale up more servers as I need it and scale them down as as I don't need them in a load balance at all for me. And then render switched,

Like, you just you just pay for monthly. Like, Neon kind of did this, but Neon is just saying, like, people don't know how much it's gonna cost them. And if you tell them it's gonna cost this much Yeah. That's good, boys.

So that's an extra $240

at the end of the day. And and then it's airtight.

Before we get any further on the what side of things, I do wanna define Kubernetes here For the average listener, this is not for the Kubernetes professional. I don't need your Wes actuallys about this.

It's basically a control center for managing Scaleway specifically advertises

for a lot of websites, readily

it it turns out that charging people based on actual usage

Let's let's talk about it. So What what are these things first and foremost? AaaS, as you mentioned, a platform as a service. You've probably used a lot of these.

these Vercel, in order to make money, they cannot simply

handle in Wes. We've done a couple shows on it as well. Yeah. It's funny. For most of my career,

switched it from

Not not saying that every time you've used that, it's Kubernetes. But this is what Kubernetes does. It handles scaling, And that's a good lesson. You don't Yeah. Always to be they don't they don't know why other people need it because they don't need it.

YouTube channel to SyntaxOne. So I went back to, like, one of the very first YouTube channel, and it's little Scott saying I am. Hey, guys.

And and and Scott places where we can just go quickly throw up side projects.

Preview URLs and stuff like that. Well, check it out. A lot of these services do exactly that. Some of which do so in a very nice UI, some of which do so just on the command line, or some of them just through configuration files.

If you just wanna throw up a side project.

referrals

I was like I was like, well, I wonder what, like, what are some old videos on this thing? Because it it's the the we changed the level of tutorials

when they Weren't using Kubernetes. They suggested using Docker Swarm as an alternative. So I I would love And another thing is, like, if you wanna run things on the edge, this is not for you. You know? He's occasionally, like, kinda delinquent in commercials.

SSL certificate stuff. I like my, Yarn servers. I wonder why that is.

Like, think about it this way. You could have your own server. You could do a one click spin up in AppRite, a Pocketbase, a Redis, to throw up a node server somewhere MySQL,

And many of you are left with maybe paying for what we have a a guest coming on, David Flanagan coming on. Yeah. Yeah. He's gonna talk to us about Wes. Put that on the big old list of questions for David because, got Buns, hon, What you'll see is a lot of the really high powered ones or the really Interesting ones are all either CLI or configuration based. But if you're like me, I like logging ESLint cost to actual cost, what people are using and what they aren't. It's full of typical hacker news nonsense where People Yarn, again, arguing about the things, $7 a month or something for a node server for some side project that you don't even care about, you just want online.

You could get a Bluehost for $3 a month. That was the price way back then. It Wes it was not only that cheap, but they paid me

your app shouldn't have to be bringing in money

I at at the at the time,

And if people ask me, where's the best place to host a WordPress site?

me, like, you've mentioned,

when Netlify realizes Yeah. We need to make more money. And what are they gonna do? They're going to say, we're making some changes to our free tier,

all on your same server in just a couple of seconds and connect to a private privately under, like, one cost, for many years. Bank on it. Yes. I know. And and, honestly, I did host a lot of stuff on Bluehost, so it's not like I was just hucking it.

That's not something I know the intricacies of. Okay. So the the thing I was asking about, like, a Docker container is a single instance of a virtual server that is running Kubernetes the most painful to to set up, which is we've asked this question many times, and We've had many different,

and the this is the way that it happens. This happens at all of the places. This is how these companies get people onboarded JS they have VC money. They give away lots of free services.

get a reaction out of you. You know what? I went to one of your old videos because the Syntax YouTube channel you should subscribe.

Yeah. Per mention, per sign up. I made bank on the Bluehost

And and I think some of the people who might hear this, like, hosting your own stuff on your own Virtual private Vercel. But I I like all my my things, my, Yeah. I know. And and if you're out there, You know, you are an expert in this type of thing

the time will come like a a little skin to throw on and to click on these things. Like, the $850

and that was the best. You know? Just throw it up there. And even for, like, the longevity of the web. Like, people say, oh, just throw it on Netlify or whatever. And I love Netlify, but

multiple containers so it can It can scale them up and scale them down and do all that good stuff. We're Scott, again, we're not Kubernetes experts, but that's how I understand it. Yes. And and I think that's mostly what you need to know. And when we talk about Kubernetes as a concept in this episode, it's like, Hey. You know that interface that you've probably seen where you can scale up or down a interface? Like, that's that's it's not the interface itself, but that's WordPress sites in in maybe some of you want. Right? Maybe you're all working on application development, but

at the the height of my WordPress days, I was freaking running, like, 40 apps on a single, I didn't even realize, like, servers could run Yarn 64. Like, I realized it, but I didn't realize it was so and you're not of course, people are People were telling me, if you can't afford $20 a month, then you shouldn't be in business. Like, of course, I can afford $20 a month to host this thing, but it's the

add more containers. You can have multiple of them that are, you know,

like, a $6 a month

Yeah. I I don't know. I I found it to be pretty compelling,

I have my dad's website, a couple of his clients, my wife's website, and I was like, man,

and not have great performance or anything, but just as a proof of concept.

So as you mentioned, it's really like death by a 1000 services here. Right? Kuber Scott cloud or Kuber dot cloud. I guess it could be Kuber, but it's with a c. Kuber Scott cloud.

And the thing I was scared about most was You know, I I host a lot of side projects. And does look

situations.

service for my side project, but I still want Redis, and I still want a cache for it. Well, now I can just add it to my already existing server under those same resources.

And I think that's, like, a

Because why? Well, I might not wanna I don't have much to say on it because I haven't tried it, but it does seem, having the dimmer everywhere, a hacker news that was posted 19 days ago, which is oddly enough, and says ditching It uses material design from 1998.

$100 in, like, 15 minutes or less. So I I spun up a droplet on DigitalOcean.

architects, or

Really what the concept of working in Kubernetes is.

pay whatever the for service for a private service on render to host a Redis Cap Rover, Goku, Piku, Kuber, and Acorn. A bunch of words there. Right? Oh, they all sound like Pokemon.

Many of these services, Meteor, when it launched, had a free, like, hobby hosting plan. It used to be free out of business that is existing in this space that just sits on top of for anything, Node apps, WordPress.

or the type of thing that you could host yourself. I'm interested in hearing about more of these because I have a list of several of these.

fixing, sharing resources, making your applications Node resilient.

But sometimes you just want a server to dump a bunch of stuff on. You know?

not Docker containers, but it architects and DigitalOcean app platform is they all use these things called app packs, which are just descriptions of how to set up a, but I do feel, what it is. And it is need to

A very compelling reason to potentially add some of this stuff because if you do want to add any of these little services, it adds up. And even if it's free to start, You have no idea if it's going to remain free once you start adding things like this.

But, obviously, just like a lot of things, crypto miners have ruined that experience for most of us. So we no longer have that many, But you don't have to deal with any of that stuff because I personally those those are the worst aspects of hosting my own code Wes dealing with that stuff. So along came you You know, I think Netlify was maybe one of the first ones that people tried where you connect and you just get up and running. That was, like, super duper easy.

fault, tolerant. So if one goes down, you know, they're sent to the next one. This is Kubernetes.

experience Deploy your apps on Kubernetes but I love It it's it seems like it's very well liked. The people who who like it seem to, like it. I do. Like I said, I'd like to see those UIs and things, but it does seem to make it really easy to not just do the general stuff that you wanna do, but, to do some fancy stuff as well. So, You know, give dokoo a try. I think it's Wes liked.

Like, yeah, you could toss these things on, Yes. You could host your whole infrastructure on this, and you can specify

But you can get auto deploy on commits that I might pipeline.

I still host WordPress sites.

but but even more than that. Right? Like like, hosting your learn the word Kubernetes

some of the pain points that I hit or or just some interesting things.

You have to have software monitoring to make sure that your software Wes functioning as expected.

And you know who does a really great job? Sanity. Century.io access to the the niceties I had from those Platform as a Vercel. But it it turns out that you can get all of that. And I will say off the jump, if you have any

Go ahead. Check it out. Yeah. Check it out. You can give them a try. This podcast is presented by Sanity. But let me tell you, if you have any sort of errors that need fixing Singing you're softer, and and let's face it. We all know you do. Yeah. Sentry is the perfect tool to help you fix those errors, especially if they're in production before your users have to send you an email saying, hey. The thing's broken. You already know it's broken. You wrote it, but you know it's broken because Sentry told you it's broken. So let's get into it here.

Welcome to Syntax.

Today, we are having an episode that is

out there.

rallying against the $20 a month per user

hosting services

per user for because they compile your code. They deploy them. They do all that good stuff for you,

Yes.

but via the require tree, it doesn't included in the actual serverless bundle,