Supper Club × Privacy, Cookie Banners, GDPR with Donata and Hans Skillrud

string of privacy laws that have come out of the US have been for 7 years. I sold that business, functional cookies like a YouTube embed, When they get to the page that has an embedded YouTube video, we're gonna look back at these times and be like, remember when companies used to just harvest your data and do whatever they want with it? Yeah. Those times are just ending. These regulations are coming, and I don't think anyone disagrees that people deserve, Yeah. I've actually had a few conversations Annoyingly, I would say a general good practice is to ensure you have good policies in place, you know, and and, of course, if you can't afford an attorney at that Early stage of your start up, there are generators out there, that can help you generate comprehensive

So you're being subjected to this law by using a service that's not even GDPR compliant.

When it comes to other countries,

They used to be used for these transfers, was invalidated a couple years back. They're trying to come up with a new framework, but it's, you know, taking a lot of time. It's very difficult.

and maybe don't necessarily understand some of the implications of some of these things. So,

your average entrepreneur on the web, what do we have to worry about there? So GDPR, PR, a privacy law that protects the residents of the European Union and the European Economic Area.

soon.

And I think we're gonna see the same with privacy. It's gonna be a few years from now, but I think what I think ultimately,

It's gross. Yeah. You know, I think it's an extra step, to kinda make sure that consumers have an opportunity to review these policies.

ironclad

GDPR is currently very much talked about Because of data transfers, so transferring data from the EU to the US is extremely problematic right now because the privacy shield

and regardless

But, really,

And then I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna do it. Nothing is ever gonna come of it, you know? Do people actually get in trouble? Like, never mind Facebook and the big companies. But, like, what about the cell phone shop that is clearly abusing

I think it's a great idea. I just don't think we've really figured out how to get there yet with a way to present all necessary information to the consumer. Yeah. I'm a big fan of that kind of concept, and I I personally think we're gonna see a variation of that in the future.

getting dinged, Five figure fines here or there for, you know, changing the email address of one of their subscribers without their consent.

But, you know, it's up to the business owner if you wanna give them an extra Step an extra, you know, incentive to to read the policies. You can, but, you know, it's really up to that. I'd imagine you probably see that Scroll effect more with companies that are more so in the harvesting and selling of data. Yeah. And they really try to emphasize, like, okay. You have to Scroll all the way down. Whereas gonna lie, scroll through it in 3.3 milliseconds as well. But Yeah. Do do you think people typically to their data being collected or And a lot of people are very, very confused as As to why that is, but there are a lot of cases that have interpreted terms of service, a you have to perform a contract or send a contract or there's a legitimate interest in processing the data.

people actually get in trouble for this type of stuff, because all the time like, I'll give you an example. I got a text message

TLDR

CAN SPAM, which is

Maybe even using emoji

specifically, like, terms of service. When people use a website and by using the website, are they

consumers with the necessary information to make an educated decision as to whether or not to share their personal information with that company. Well, you've you've also expressed concern before with, like, a visual that kinda gave you a high level overview and then to, like, view more, you link into that. I feel like it's been a year since we talked about it, but, like, could that confuse users? I mean, then you just end up clicking on a 1,000 links and getting lost and and, like, not getting all the information in one place. I'm personally the type of person where I like to get all my information in one place. I don't have to click on a 1,000 links to understand what's actually going on, and that just takes a lot more time for the consumer to read the policy at the end of the day. So I like it where it's all in 1 place. I do think the idea of TLDR, one of California's privacy laws. You search CALOPA compliance guide, And you'll see the compliance guide of all that that law requires. So that can be a great first step, problem.

We we there are some lawsuits that are not related to the privacy laws that have happened.

which is the privacy law that protects the residents of the EU.

So it is something that is of more concern, and that's actually why we're seeing all of these new privacy laws passed as well is because Consumers are lobbying their legislators for privacy rights. Yeah. Since we, booked this recording, enforcement GDPR requires companies that need to comply with it to have a privacy policy that has its own very, very specific set of disclosures,

But most businesses will just link to the privacy policy, and then a consumer can read it at their own leisure.

to the policies. And that is the moment where you captured consent,

A lot of the confusion around GDPR is that everyone assumes that GDPR applies to them even though it really doesn't.

you know, everyone yeah. Everyone kinda wants Privacy for everyone. I want privacy, but since I live in Illinois, I get nothing. Yeah. That's true.

Oh, yeah.

But GDPR protects the privacy rights of residents of EU and EEA.

So just because you have a website that may be accessed by someone from the EU by accident, that does not mean that GDPR applies to you. So you need to offer goods or services to residents of the EU. So for example, like, offer your, My problem with those is that they don't actually end up providing any information. So, like, they'll say, we share your personal data, But then the the list doesn't include who you share it with. Well Yeah. If you share my personal data with your email service provider, cool. That's that's very expected.

But what's happening in the US is there's proposed privacy bills out right now, several in New York that if any one of them passes, It will allow any New Yorker to sue any website owner for collecting as little as an email address on a contact form, without proper private, New York privacy law disclosure. So if That business owner is not located in New York. Yeah. And regardless of the business's size too. They could be like a 1 person shop in I would use it. And if the data protection authorities say don't do it, then I would remove it. This is why I control the Grips on our way. Yeah. Yeah.

for for noncompliance.

links we could provide. Like, how Yeah. Canadian, how do you file a complaint so we can make more awareness of this? But,

it's a little more stringent in terms of consumers having to agree to stuff.

And you can actually go to enforcement tracker.com

regulations Yeah. Even though that law has been in existence

I'm curious if at what point we'll start to see It kind of already. But, like, where's the on prem chat GPT that lawyers can plug their brief into

label which used to be part of the which is based on the nutrition facts label that you find in in, like, the grocery store or whatever.

Why do people do that?

So I think it's just the news covers the big ones. And Yeah. But what's happening is there are small businesses getting hit. Now in the US, There really isn't much going on in terms of small businesses getting dinged.

I think I have.

which is super important for a privacy policy. What about those ones that make you scroll to the bottom and Like, you pretend that you've read it.

or do they have to always do check a checkbox that says, I'm agreeing to these terms of service. So in the US, usually, just by the nature of using the website, you are opted in to agreeing to the terms of service. And a lot of terms of service will say by using this website, you agree to this terms of service

So that a lot of that has happened out of GDPR,

more likely to switch to a different provider if they feel that the different provider respects their privacy more.

I've had to, like, ask them a couple questions in the past about, like, inconsistencies as to how we actually phrase certain things. Because if we don't phrase it a certain way, then it's not compliant, and then, you know, The the client is at risk.

and actually look these up. So you're at you're gonna see tons of big companies getting hit, but you're also gonna see small companies getting hit too. I just came across a blog where I think, like, a couple dozen people in real estate have been fined in 5 figure territories,

Kinda like, do you remember when SSL certificates were kind of like a nice thing to have? You get them for e commerce sites. Oh, yeah. But beyond that, you're not really like, okay, what's a big deal? But then all of a sudden, Google, I think, Chrome changed up the viewing of SSL secure sites. And now when you visit a website that isn't secure I mean, I don't know about you, I don't feel secure. I'm like, this is so sketchy.

you can't collect personal data unless you have an exception or, like, a legal basis. So A consumer consents legal task force, and the science and technology council, and then I'm also the chair of the Chicago Bar Association's So any cookie consent banner that just says, by using this website, we assume you're okay with cookies. Okay.

even if you never actually checked the box,

Have you seen that list?

So one of the things that I definitely encourage people to do is stop using Google Analytics, switch to a more privacy focused analytics tool,

website in French or provide a special phone number that People from Germany can call,

yes. So the news definitely covers Facebook Getting fined 1,000,000,000 of dollars, Google getting fined 1,000,000,000 of dollars. But what isn't really talked much about are 1 person companies,

And like, I don't know how they probably got my data from, like, a list of Of customers from my cell phone provider. And then because I lived close, they just started texting me, like literally some guy sitting there texting me. And I was like, You can't do this. There's no unsubscribe. There's no opt out. You're using that information for the wrong rule. And I was like, I'm going to report them to,

are these things in in terms of, like,

I think that that there's a couple thoughts here. One,

or if you're tracking the behavior of EU residents online through cookies, pixels, or analytics services.

for sure. People who don't want to read. Yeah. They do that sometimes.

for

If you share my personal data with a data broker, I have problems with that. And then I have to go in and read the entire policy to, like, actually figure out what it is. So I think it's a great initiative. I just don't think we're really there yet in terms of creating this shortened privacy policy, too long, didn't read, That actually provides

Chicago and and that they Wow. Yeah. That's really I always say, you can't only have policies.

my data? Yeah. So there there's a lot packed in there, but, required under each privacy law that applies to you. So a privacy policy explains your privacy practices. It lets your website visitors know what information you're collecting,

The UK is not applying to that anymore. UK has its own privacy law, the United Kingdom Data Protection Act, which is essentially the same as GDPR. Just switch the names of EU to UK.

that don't necessarily match the disclosures required by other privacy laws. So let's say you need to comply with GDPR and you have a GDPR PR compliant privacy policy, that does not mean that you're compliant with Nevada revised statute chapter 603 a. Completely different set of disclosures. So GDPR privacy policy will not cover you for other privacy laws.

for,

that means that they can only submit their data if they've agreed,

A lot of businesses right now are getting caught up in GDPR because they use Google Analytics, which track people from the EU.

Or, Castle in Canada. We have I'm from Canadian.

And, essentially, GDPR has its own set of So for example,

From a local cell phone shop that I've never been to in my entire life. And what they did is they just went into their list of customers. And they said, all right, these people are going to be expiring for, like, an IT degree, and

all automatically agreeing to those Terms of service simply by creating an account on this website,

ever read The privacy policy or terms of service, like, what percentage of users do you think actually read these things? I think people who are looking for a certain answer do. So for example, let's say I'm buying something online that has a like a high likelihood of a return. So let's say I'm buying shoes. It's It's very hard to find the right shoe size online. I'm gonna check their terms of service to see if I can get a refund and return the item if it doesn't fit.

And it it's just constantly changing. And

You could do that with the office of the privacy information commissioner in Canada Yeah. Or, by the way, the friendliest and most Helpful government agency of all time.

Because as we kinda move into the new age of the Internet, consumers are more interested in their privacy and are more interested in in learning about what's done with their data. So I think it's more of a proactive step to kinda present the consumer with these policies and at least allow them to to read those policies.

Does that hold any weight? Like, sometimes I just, like, boom. Like like,

and and action could be taken.

of Whether or not you actually read the terms of service. A lot of consumers will bring cases saying, well, I didn't read the terms of service, so it doesn't Apply to me. Mhmm. Unfortunately, that's not a winning argument. It never was, and it probably never will be.

Or, you know, it's a brand that I'm new to or I'm not sure if I should trust. Maybe I'll click on the privacy policy and search for the word sell to see if they sell my data, and then I'll use that as a way to determine whether or not I do business with them. It's also very common to read the Policies when, like, payment information is being collected or the amount that you're paying the business is high. So you wanna make sure that they're you know, that everything's buttoned up there or if you wanna make sure that a company is legitimate,

maybe give a quick rundown about what the heck GDPR is. And in 2023,

for over a 100 days now.

because, well, their websites, we get traffic from all over. Like, you know, so it's Mhmm. I don't know. I love the fact that people are getting a right to their privacy. I think it's a little bit of a joke that we, small business owners, have to comply with a multitude of ever growing, ever complex privacy Pause. Do we wanna let's let's get moving to, yeah, GDPR as a concept. And, this is something that I think, You know, web developers were just kind of presented with, especially because a lot of entrepreneurs and developers in our space, you know, get into the space first as Developers not as business owners,

You can't create policies and think you're done. You have to have a strategy To keep them up to date with this ever changing landscape,

privacy policies and terms. Is that like a thing people do? Like a here's here's a quick recap in plain English.

Uh-huh. For the record, it's very grotesque, so just be be forewarned for anyone watching it. It's it's not for the weak card. For sure. Yeah.

with laws and stuff, and they are so helpful.

usually, you'll go and see if they have website policies because that will tell you whether or not it's, like, a legitimate actual company or if it's some kind of a scam or something like that. So I think more and more consumers are reading these policies, and it's really interesting because there's been a lot of studies done Saying that consumers are or this section has to be in all caps, or if you don't,

I like to think of, like, policies, privacy policies in particular as

So, like, how

People are going to have the knowledge that companies don't deserve to just take your information and do whatever they want with it. I think they're gonna look back at and think about the SSL's Times are gonna, It's very motivating because you have this new idea and you want to burn the midnight oil getting things produced. And sometimes compliance doesn't really come until after the fact.

For, quote, unquote, bigger businesses, businesses that have 25,000,000 or more in revenue, businesses that process the date of 25,000 more residents of a particular state. And just for anyone who doesn't know this, there is no federal generic privacy law just impacting website owners. There's individual states proposing their own Changes. So it doesn't matter where your business is because privacy laws protect people. So you gotta find out, you know, do I get visitors from California, and do those laws apply to me? So that's the 1st aspect you have to go through.

so many resources to businesses on how to comply. Like, there's videos, there's articles, there's charts. Yeah. There's just, like, a wealth of resources. And in the US, we don't have that. We get regulations which don't match the law.

practice of law and and defrauding courts and all of this kind of stuff. And they said that they were gonna fight it, But I'm really curious as to whether or not they will use their AI to fight this, I would, at the very least, provide a list of these third party services that you intend to install on the Site and then allow the the client to do a compliance check and confirm that these are the third parties that we wanna use. Yeah. Okay. And

And don't forget to subscribe in your podcast player

You know, notes or or whatever where you don't know how to phrase something. I think it's definitely very, very useful technology. I did think we just have to be careful on how we use it. Yeah. I I bet we'll start to see, like, on prem solutions. So something a lot of companies

That was a big part of it. Thankfully, they're actually teaching it in schools as,

And it I guess you should ask Chad GPT itself whether it's, but you can just host the fonts locally.

And At the top, you'll see agency partners, and you can apply there. Yep. Cool. What I really like about your company is that you have such knowledge of The web

Just whisper in a defendant's ear, and then the defendant is supposed to just, what, put their whole life in the hands of this AI? Yeah. You know? That's That's not right either.

we called it pepita,

and and a parking ticket I got And be like, given all of these inputs, did could you find any loophole that I can then explore? You know?

That's genius.

It came out pretty recently, and, basically, what the point was is that you would put an air AirPod into one of your, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'll get less Data with the alternatives, But for smaller companies, it's not as complex as you might think it is.

local laws when I have nothing to do with Europe? So I think

Hence, why we picked it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Legal services. It'll be interesting to see how because those are gonna butt heads a lot, I think. Because,

And, yeah, if you also, if you're a web designer,

It's called From, and it's available on Apple TV, and that's f r o m.

Always looking for cool stuff like this, so thank you. Yeah. I'll definitely give this a check.

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny that you say that, Wes, because I did just see a a tweet today that was saying, this is a real need who's building it. And It is it is something that somebody is probably working on a good solution to that at this very second, but also definitely something that's going to happen. Also wonder if there's a lot of lawyers out there who are just,

So we're $99 a year. You get a full set of policies, no hidden cost, none of that stuff.

There's a lot of ethical concerns with attorneys using CHa GPT, for example, because a lot of law firms are saying, well, you can just put your brief into CHa GPT, And then websites can respond to your settings. Like, come on. That has to be the future. So A lot of new privacy laws are Actually, saying that that should be developed is like a universal opt out mechanism. And in the UK, they're reforming their privacy law. And one of the things that they are reforming is who needs a cookie consent banner, and they're trying to relax those requirements. Cool. Google Analytics

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate this. It's been very enlightening. It's kind of interesting to be able to ask these questions that everybody has, and Hopefully, the listeners learned a thing or 2 as well.

It says Paramount plus. Yes. You can watch it on Paramount plus 2. Oh, yeah. So I guess it is Paramount based. Yeah. Yeah. It's MGM

So a question about.

your you you've done a fantastic job of not plugging your own company. So let's talk about what your company does. Sure. So we're from Termageddon, and we create website policies. So privacy policies, terms of service, disclaimers, end user license agreements, Cookie policies

So it's really not gonna save you any time, I think.

Oh, that's good. Let's Talk about,

Ugh. It's So good. And nobody's talking about it either, which is kinda weird. It's one of the my favorite new shows.

and if you tell it, your actual business practices as they relate to those disclosures.

So that gives me alerts for any US Privacy bills. So, like, you just write in your search term, and it sends you alerts. Yeah. For the rest of it, the International Association of Privacy Professionals, So there are certain And if you don't, that's okay. You just won't be tracked by certain But if you do, the website still works.

we got into talking about chat GPT, and and they're a lawyer, and they're, like, expressing some very d very big concerns from a copyright infringement And, personally, just my 2¢, I feel like the introduction of plug ins, it's gonna be huge for chat g p t. Yeah. That's gonna be cool. It's gonna be Yeah. Yeah. I I I guess I'm on the I'm I'm buying it. I'm buying all the hype. Like, it's Yeah.

We've been watching it on Apple TV.

Yep. And we have plans to expand further very soon here. Yeah. How do you keep up on the laws in so many to see. I denied.

CBA,

Plug ins are gonna open up. I mean, I saw with the WordPress industry how plug ins just blew up that industry. And or affiliate programs so you can help your clients get protected as well while making a new recurring revenue stream. You can just find that at trimageddon.com.

which was Sounds delicious. Oh, so I I might be saying it all.

countries?

Donati, you seem to, like, rip just, like, instantly beyond the Canadian,

Like tax law in Canada. Like, right now, I have to collect information to prove that they're not Canadian and, like, what that information is. Like, what's enough To prove that someone is not Canadian.

Yeah. Just so it's a process. So I use a service called,

to think that you can now have extensions like that,

If it's, like, a $50 ticket, you know, whatever.

privilege by using it, You know, you have the privacy,

for a full archive of all of our shows.

and it never goes outside of their own Office.

depend on an AI to I definitely would not. Prevent you from going to Chicago. Do. Oh, yeah. Sure.

And they tried to get this system for these cookies. Right? Mhmm. So any cookies that are essential so, like, without those cookies, the website would break. You don't need to worry about those. Those are accepted by default. All other cookies We're talking about, like, like login cookie

or writing, like,

Sick pics and say shameless plugs. I don't know if you, read the,

It's not a lawyer. It doesn't update. It doesn't know the latest laws.

because I think one of the supreme courts of the state said, yeah. This This is, like, unlawful

help educate your clients on the importance of policies and let them make the decision if they wanna comply with or not? And and this is not just a US only thing. Right? I'm just reading Canada, US, Ireland, UK, and Australia.

that have very tight security What what do you they say? Like, the US is my country.

on On top of that massive powerhouse fun tool. I mean, it it is fun. I think it can be really useful for writing emails in figuring out what you need. Obviously,

So I'm, like, redoing it. And Canada has been great. You can just pick up the phone and ask them questions all all the time.

really, really into the show. For anyone who liked lost,

emails or talking to

to help this man fight his ticket, and then they chickened out at the end of it,

1 in Quebec and 3 in the

instead of having these unproven

US.

And it is So good. But don't say anything else. Can I just say the basic premise? Don't do the basic. I want I want people to just, like the good news is within the 1st episode,

How this is going to play into

Yes. Yeah.

legality, or is it just too early?

which is really interesting. And on the second point, I actually recently did a study, which is available on our blog, And it's such a high High risk product because data protection authorities are constantly looking at Google products Salivating all the time and constantly finding that for that clients. So I personally would not use it until it's been confirmed by the data protection authorities that it is compliant, Yeah. Because it was collecting way more personal data than what was necessary to provide the service. So it's being, So for terms of service in the US, For example, when you're reading a terms of service, you'll see that certain paragraphs are in all caps.

or if they'll chicken out again. But It's called do not Hey, the world's 1st robot lawyer. Yes.

It was a pleasure. Bring us back on anytime. If you ever wanna if any updates happen, you wanna we'd love to chat with you again. Thank you for having us. Yeah. It was it nice to have, people who know what you're talking about instead of us just out there, We are the only tool that helps you identify the laws that apply to you, and then our questionnaire adjusts and asks you the questions necessary to make the respective disclosures you're specifically required to make. And if you're a web designer, you get a free set of our policies for life. No credit card required. We manually prove you. We legitimately

licking their lips knowing that a lot of people are getting their legal advice right now from chat GPT.

Yeah. Pick pick?

legal representation who want to write a privacy policy for me there. 1st and foremost, their small business layers are are blanket service.

So the way our service works, is we ask you a series of questions. So the first set of questions helps determine what privacy Laws apply, and therefore, what disclosures your policies need to contain. And the remainder of the questions are based around those disclosures, and then your policies are created. And And after your policies are created, you get an embed code. So the embed code goes on to your website's policy pages and displays the text. And after that, we keep track of privacy laws and privacy bills. So if anything changes, new law passes, existing law amended, new rules, new regulations, anything like that, we can automatically update your policies for you. Yep. So when 3 months, when 4 more privacy laws go into effect,

Wow. That's that's wild. But I like I like that you locally store,

And I basically did a couple different tests based on how much information I provided to it. But the only way that and this this is my finding, is the only way that Chatt GPT can write a compliant privacy policy is if you tell it what privacy laws apply to you and you've already determined that, if you tell it all of the disclosures that your privacy policy needs to contain

So, you know, I wish we could kinda take a page out of your For sure. Yeah. They're they're pretty good. I'm I'm redoing my checkout right now, and I have a bunch of questions around, Is that okay a, or does it have to be in that very legalese to cover your butt in every sit situation?

investigated by by Italy's government there.

Yeah. Did you guys hear about this new technology where, it's an AI that helps you fight traffic tickets?

Oh, man. I could talk about this for 5 days and forever on And so I'm part of the so I guess the first aspect of it, part of the American Bar Association and the Chicago Bar, So for Canadians, legal services more accessible

and I am so sick of updating that thing, but I have to update it all times. Day almost daily. Yeah. Yeah. So it's her full time job. Like, not even kidding. Like, all day every day, she's just monitoring that stuff. Wow. It's wild. Yeah. It's funny because the moment that anything about Canada was mentioned,

I think it's so cool. Yeah. It's funny. I I went to school, So that's that's a really good point. A company was

except our tool will actually tell you whether or not you need 1,

Them, and we'll push the respective updates to their policy pages.

that's nice. Passed a new privacy law too in addition to the federal privacy law, and Canada is just so nice. And and we jokingly never had a bad experience with your government. So we jokingly say that no one gives enough credit to Canada's privacy law, pipette.

for people who actually know know that You know, the tech behind it. I, I it all started when we went on on one of our 1st dates, and,

Network.

manually send you a personal welcome email. We've done it to 6 over 6,000 manually approved partners. And has seen a lot of websites. I have seen a lot of websites. And, And, yeah, you know, as a former web agency owner, I can I just hope that I can help you, but you also get less chance of being fined or getting in trouble. So for me, it's it's worth the Trade off, but, obviously, it's every person's decision what they wanna do. And the the websites that are, like, you know, all about high conversions, like, we get millions of visitors every day, and, You know, every change they make to a pixel of their site matters. Like, that's gonna be a lot more difficult of a conversation. But if you're an everyday website owner,

So Hans and I have been

Man, I like, I feel like the I'm the hipster of privacy laws. I think that's the coolest Privacy law of them all. Yeah. I think it smokes GDPR.

Sure. What a team.

And you might not even know any of this, but the whole AI thing that is starting to blow up recently. Do you have any thoughts on

And it will read through it. You can look up case law on there. And,

on can chat GPT write your privacy policy? That's wild. The one. Honestly, that's Interesting because, you know, there are a lot of people who cannot afford legal advice or good legal advice. For sure. But I think that problem can be solved with legal aid where you have Attorney providing pro bono hours and providing, like, actual legal advice and, you know, helping these people because, yeah, a lot of people can't afford attorneys, But we as attorneys should make

That that is exactly what you are prompt to be.

the ABA,

basically, they found that it's number 1, it's almost always wrong. And number 2, if you input any data into CHaD gpt, it becomes the property of CHaD gpt, So, really, unless you're a privacy lawyer, it's completely useless for writing up your privacy policy because it's not based on any of that information. And if you don't give any of that to To the Chad GPT, then it won't work. And, really, if you are wanting to give all that to Chad GPT, you're gonna spend, like, years trying to figure that information out.

the document. Did you come with a sick pic yet? I've been waiting for this For the last hour. Alright.

Pipita. Some people call it pipetta. I guess it just depends. I have heard pipita before. Really cool about Canada is that you guys have provided

And, yeah, they got fined for that. So Yeah.

And, anything you would like to shamelessly plot? I mean, term again. I mean, if you're if you if you aren't ready to hire an attorney to monitor privacy laws and keep your policies up to date over time, Our service is $99 a year. You get a full set of policies that automatically update over time. And unlike any competitor

There in the 1st episode, you'll know if it's for you or not, and our lead in would say, if you've ever seen lost and you liked lost, You're gonna like Fromm. And one of the actors from lost is actually in Fromm. Main character too. It's it's really good. We just recently got hooked on it. I think they're coming out with season 2 soon. So yeah. This is why we joined the podcast. We we just wanted our sick pic to come out.

you know, competent enough to write Legal documents, and it will tell you that it's not. So

you know, I I ran a web design development shop, for for several years. We actually give web agencies a complimentary set of our policies for free in the hopes that you like our tool and, would consider You know, do you really wanna

One of many.

Head on over to syntax.fm

all of those things. So it comes from a lot of different sources, and there's a lot of proposed Privacy bills. So we have a state privacy bill tracker on our blog that you can find, fined for using Google Fonts.

or drop a review if you like this show.

Next section is our Things they'll they wanna use GitHub, but they're not allowed because they can't store their data on GitHub server. So GitHub will literally

and it becomes, as lawyers, we're very drained by these cases, You know, and it it's cool in that sense, but I I think there's a lot of Problems with how people are trying to use it, like, trying to have it write legal documents for you.

Come slap a box in their data center and it all runs locally. It's called on prem. Right? Like, I'm curious

Really? So yeah. Yeah. And, the data protection authority said,

Yeah. I don't know. It's too fine to do that.

Viewable by Chatt GPT. So you're actually breaking attorney client,

State Net.

trying to guess. So sincerely appreciate it. Thanks. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Cool. Peace.

Oh, so I don't see from on Apple TV. I'm looking for it. FROM.

Like, if you're about to, like, potentially lose your license to go to jail or something, man, I would not wanna, you know, throw those dice. There there is a line in the sand somewhere. Yeah. And it's about a $50 ticket.

And and not that they wouldn't know their stuff, but

LexisNexis

Yeah.

I'd be willing to do a $500 ticket. Not anything about that at all. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I would like to, like, feed it my on whether they want their data to be just passed off and shared with third parties or not. A GDPR

You don't need to collect IP address to display fonts. You just host them locally.

I I think it's it's a cool tool, and I I like it because it can help me write greeting cards to family members that I don't necessarily care enough about to spend a lot of time writing it myself.

specifically, most of the time I'm getting,

A terms of service, otherwise known as terms and conditions, GA four is when it starts to get a little bit more,

So, you know, when you get to a website and it says, well, we don't really sell Personal information, but then you scroll down to California ears during a court hearing, and it would help you on what to say. And this is wonderful because the first case came up where they were gonna test this out. And, basically, the court said, whoever is behind this tool, we're gonna put you in jail for trying to coach defendants on what to say and how to get out of tickets.

Interesting.

You know, that's very, very confusing to consumers So, yeah, that was a really interesting thing that I did. Well, also, didn't it wasn't it last week Italy banned? And and I think when people get these spam messages or spam calls, you automatically get this Terrible feeling about this company, of this company is a scam, or they're trying to scam me, or they're trying to get me as a customer, and they're being so intrusive.

like, written in legalese? Like, how come they are often so hard to actually read? And then every now and then

interchange those things, but they're actually 2 distinct different types of statements you make On your website, a privacy policy exists One of many, babe. Yeah.

you stumble upon somebody who is actually just said, okay, here is what this means. We are Collecting your data x, y, and z, and we're using it via these services and for these reasons.

the privacy policy and the terms of service?

written a specific way because of these court cases.

So a lot of it is,

comply with applicable privacy laws and make very specific disclosures

But the reality is is that depending on what laws apply to you, you're you're forced into making very specific marketing slash analytics,

Do the do the terms always have to be

So your terms help limit your liability

you know, everyone always says, well, I just want a super simple privacy policy. Well, me too. That's, like, exactly what I want.

What are they specifically, and how are they different from each other? Because they kinda get blended together sometimes. Yeah. They do. It is yeah. That is very common. A lot of people inter,

with the rules to your website.

to, kinda little things that you can do like that that prevent a lot of headache in the future. Not to mention, technically, your website will load slightly faster too since you're not making a call to Google, So, I mean, I think it's something to just get on top of because it's just gonna get in more intense as time goes on. So, like, in that in that, like, Regard do do I just had this idea of, like, a a non legalese

these are interchangeable words, and terms really just help you state the rules to using a website.

Privacy policies, and UK data protection act cookie consent mechanism is very different than California's CPRA cookie consent mechanism.

And very confusing to anyone reading the policy

because that cutesy wording, can really get you into a lot of trouble down the line. So we try to make the policies as Clear and as direct as possible.

Terms,

So, unfortunately,

Who you're sharing that with, what your purposes for why you collected it are, and a whole bunch more.

include this particular disclosure written in this exact way, Then it's not compliant with consumer protection laws or automated renewal laws.

and courts have literally said this has to be phrased this particular way,

so,

While also respecting the government requirements that they've laid out. And I think for consumers too. So a great example is sale of of personal information. And one of California's laws, you know, states that very, very broadly.

disclosures required by each of those applicable laws. So it's kind of a balancing act, really, between trying to make things as legible as possible

By just explaining certain factors about your website. And I like the terms for virtually any website because you can have disclosures in there like, hey. We offer links to third party sites. We're not responsible when you click one of those links. So if you click that link and that site gets hacked, you get hacked, you can't come back and sue us. Little statements like that just kinda set the tone and, make sure everyone understands what is going on,

if you wanna have them agree to your terms,

when it comes to, the changes if they apply to you. And it's just about respecting individuals too. Like, why is you you're getting these text messages, and they're awful. And I get them all the time, and I hate them. So as a business owner, I'm not gonna send random people text messages Because I know how that feels.

you know, it's just good to be practicing

First, determine what privacy laws apply to you.

so that you at least are Capturing when people agree to your privacy, meaning they've agreed to subscribing to your newsletter if you've talked about that in your privacy policy. They have agreed to Billing relationships, So, really, a cookie consent mechanism is to by default, it's to give

yeah. I mean, And and just so you know, we're a US based business. We partnered with an EU based provider for the cookie consent solution we offer our customers. So Termageddon really at its core We're just policies,

within that embed area, they'll see the option to accept.

Yeah. It's only when you're using cookies like Google Analytics, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, any of that kind of stuff. Pixels. Any Cracking pixels, that's when you need a cookie consent banner.

So awesome. The web is a mess right now. You visit a website you've never been to and you're just assaulted with

Well, I'll just say this. I love targeted ads. I think targeted ads are the best. I want relevant ads brought to me. But sometimes when I visit websites, I don't necessarily want their targeted Ads provide be be like advertising to me. So Yeah. I like to decline those types of cookies. Whereas other websites, I'm like, okay. I like this brand. They're fun. I actually wouldn't mind ads from them. I want to accept.

And it's important to understand maybe it's not Calendly, but companies like Google may sell the data that they've now collected on you. And, really, like, what these privacy laws are trying to do is to at least give people the option to say, no. I don't I visited this website, but I don't really want my data to just be, like, Hawked out and shared behind the scenes to a bunch of people who then broker it and then sell it off to other people. So that's why these cookie consent mechanisms exist.

somebody is 3 years out of school, and they have an idea for a website, and they wanna They got a domain name. They're working on it. They're coding things. They have users sign up, and then all of a sudden you go, oh, this could be real.

you know, that will prevent most enforcement actions. Yeah. So, like, if Wes was based in Europe right now and he was getting those text from those people trying to sell him cell phone services. Oh, man. Those people Yeah. Not yet. Get walloped under GDPR. They would Mhmm. They would get annihilated, Same with privacy too.

So cookie consent banner just basically allows you to make that choice of I wanna consent to this or I don't.

And what I would suggest doing and the dreaded cookie consent banner, for changes with legislation.

GDPR, I would say, outside of the There's US businesses, obviously, that get fined for GDPR noncompliance.

All of those are not compliant.

And I think, it's important to remember too, like,

What isn't isn't allowed? Because I'm thinking of, like, okay,

need to get the sent of residents of Canada to collect their personal information.

but that's just because I haven't been able to find any Accurate information as to what it does.

g d

in that situation. So That's fascinating. It makes total sense, but I never considered that Google Fonts would be Considered,

How do they figure out What what am I am I allowed to do, and what am I not allowed to do? You know, I wanna make sure everything is buttoned up, but I I can't necessarily afford a lawyer right now. Of course. So, you know,

blog, one of our blog posts is what privacy laws require privacy policy.

and a deny option.

if they say yes, that is sharing data with your email service provider.

I get Cookie

prior to putting nonessential cookies on a user's browser. And when we step back and think about it, it's because we as web designers and developers, we've been implementing third party technologies that, you know, you embed YouTube videos. Well, You're not just embedding YouTube videos. You are sharing the data now with Google when people play that video and interact with that video, for example.

it seems like everyone is just throwing them up for almost everywhere, every visitor on their website. And it seems kinda silly. And like you said, I if you just click the x,

Rabbit hole we could dive into. There's no data transfer issues there. But when you submit, like, your name and email on a contact form. That's governed by the privacy policy usually.

It would just be to capture consent, meaning

you can just host locally. You can download the thing and and pop it on. It's not a big deal to do that type of thing.

That's your choice whether or not you wanna submit that information.

You know, kinda deny or accept things or configure it. Usually, the cookie consent script itself configures everything for you. You can always manually set 1 up too, but there's an argument to be made A pain in the butt. Yeah. Because, like, scripts like, third party tools will change all the time. So, yeah, it's kind of a balancing act whether you wanna do it yourself or Yeah. Or have a third party do it. So but it's messy. I mean, I can't deny it. I like, when you go to a website, it feels kind of invasive, like seeing this cookie banner.

And from there, You know, I would say just a good general practice is to make sure you're getting consent

And that way, they won't collect any user data. So you still get the benefit of the product, and you still get the fonts. You just don't collect any data unnecessarily.

you know, you you have nothing what to do with Europe, But in reality, The only difference should be that you're not being tracked by, for example, Facebook ads or LinkedIn ads. So the site should look the same because the essential cookies are still enabled,

something that you would need a cookie banner for. So that that is really fascinating to hear.

In terms of when you click on x, the website looks completely the same.

Variations of GDPR are coming to the US, without a doubt. I mean, they're already here in a lot in a lot of existing laws, but more are coming. There are over 2 dozen privacy bills in the US alone right now. Mhmm. If any one of them passes, it will require updates to your privacy policy at the very least, Mom, I'm so jealous. So we'll we'll we'll, email or that can actually be one of the,

because you're only,

And how would somebody

but we partner with a, for multiple reasons. But yeah.

and Just information that would make the website work. It's not necessarily that you're tracking them, but somebody logs in and you're storing a session token in their cookie or like that. That's actually a great example of an essential cookie. Meaning, if that if all you have are essential cookies being utilized and put on users' browsers, You do not need a cookie consent mechanism

go to the cookies in your dev tools. This has no data present, which is not something you see on almost any website, which is very impressive. So,

New York City. But if you get traffic from the EU, you gotta keep that in mind. And therein lies the broad reaching nature of privacy laws, which is privacy laws protect people. They don't care where your business is located. So as a website owner, we have to actually go out and find what laws apply to us because Only then can we determine what disclosures we need to make in our policies,

I'm making an American website.

And really, it's just,

you do actually,

That would allow you to not have to have a cookie consent in the 1st place because West just gave an excellent example of an essential cookie where it's like, I need this cookie to work So that people who log in remain logged in. Like that there's no consent necessary for that. So if you're only using essential cookies, you don't need a cookie consent. So, like, that might be a good motivating factor to reduce the amount of a right to privacy. I think that's all, like, pretty,

California's cookie banner is only necessary if you sell the information you collect. So if you're just, like if you randomly have to just comply with California's privacy law, CPRA, that doesn't necessarily mean you need a cookie banner for that, for those visitors. So, Calendly.

you know, we have Individual states proposing their own laws here in in the states.

would be considered a nonessential,

That's correct.

so and we all do this as as privacy lawyers.

policies.

There's a lot more compliance obligations that come with that. So, really, if you're a website designer,

And it's not necessary to the operation of the website to collect the IP address, so you can at least figure that out, which will be easier.

with that person's

Yeah. Awesome.

or anything else that monitors people while using your website, you gotta keep in mind if that law applies to you because you could be based in,

I hear you. When when when when you say, like, it's it's annoying, like, cookie banners can, just and it's invasive. And I think a lot of people when they visit a website that have a cookie banner think, oh, this company sells my data because they have a cookie banner. It's like, oh, that's Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I get that also. Heard that. Oh, well, anyone listening, you can, tweet us or something and let us know if you if you've also felt this way.

Cookie pop up with all these options, and then you've got a newsletter sign up pop up and all this type of stuff. And it's it's kind of sad how awful the 1st visit experience to many websites is,

Like, log in session data, for example. Are, like, certain things that you can do to avoid the cookie consent banner. So let's say you have Google Fonts. Right. So you install Google Fonts onto the website, so you need to have a cookie consent banner because that collects IP address,

And and cookies is Like, what what if we're using local storage instead of cookies? That that applies as well. Right? Cookie is just kind of a an a word that they use for storing data. That's right. Yeah. You're not sharing that data with third parties, so that's already a big plus sign. If you're storing it locally and then somehow,

When you install Calendly,

And after going through, like, 5 hours of research, you still get can't get a straight answer.

built into the browsers where you can accept them. And This whole pop up business will has to change at some point, but, flick my scroll wheel. That's exactly. Yeah. Oh. Oh, yeah. Of course, I read it in 6 milliseconds, and and they're they're happy with that.

you know, things like that. What yeah. One asterisk to that. So after GDP or or after,

The best answer to this is what somebody at the European Commission said is, You know, you should get consent whenever collecting personal information, so having those checkboxes.

third parties you're sharing your website day visitors' data with. Or you could also enable geolocation

The European government could make you delete that data And to get consent, you need to have an accept option And I I think at that point you should be considering GDPR compliance.

and that seems to have no problem accepting

we could just pick whatever services look Good. You know, you had the best service, and that's the one that you picked to put on the site.

People who have privacy rights, that respect, and, like, allow them to have the choice We're actually kinda friends with the person who wrote Canada's privacy law. So,

Because in reality, if you have those first kind of steps buttoned up, Usually, you can be okay. You know, the complaints usually come when you don't provide any privacy information

These are my laws. Like, what are they gonna do? They're gonna come get me and and ship me back to Europe and put me in jail? Are they like, how how does that even work? Like, how how do you have to I'm not I'm not saying that this is what I think, but this is what I hear a lot about is that people say, Why do I have to abide by rules from Europe

where the cookie consent banner pops up only for the people who have the right to see it. Yeah. You know, and nobody else Use it. So that's another option too. That's what I was gonna ask is that I'm here in Canada, and disclosures and it says that they do.

So On our blog, And second of all, you could be required to delete all of the data. So let's say that 10% of your email marketing list is people from Europe, and you make money off of that list by selling them your products or services.

And then once I figured out which laws apply to me, I would go through the rest of the blog because we have compliance guides on each law. So let's say you need to comply with CALOPA,

And if a user clicks decline or clicks the x button, then those scripts should not fire. And, just 1 more thought here. If if you don't like cookie consent if you're listening and you don't like cookie consent banners, you don't wanna have 1 for your website.

still fire or don't fire.

taking that responsibility on, that would be very nice where you could just set your settings once,

What about people that say I'm an American business?

so that there can be that transparency,

yeah, does that help? Yeah. It does. And I think one of the main misconceptions

it's okay that if cookies still Fire if they're essential cookies. So, like, in West provided an absolute perfect example, which is law a cookie to store login session data. Like, that's But, really, that is the broad reaching nature of this privacy law, which is that it can start applying to you the moment you track a user. So if you're using, like, tools like Hotjar You're in Canada, so you actually have rights under pipettas. So you can actually file a complaint,

and so forth. So if I could give, like, one little nugget of of recommendation,

And if these Europeans want to sign up, Like, I'm not actively I'm not selling in euros. I'm not actively marketing. I'm not translating to German.

to those cookie script Providers.

back to Europe on a boat and and put you in jail or Or whatever, but a couple things can happen. So first, you can be fine.

the website works exactly the same. And I'm often wondering, like, what are they even doing here? I I think Just doing it for show.

I know. Yeah. And do not a dozen. So,

using essential cookies, meaning the website's not gonna work unless you have them.

With cookie scripts, You know, if you go on to a website without a cookie consent banner, those just fire. Right? You have no choice of whether or not you wanna submit that information

Like, using that for marketing analytics purposes, maybe you have to make a disclosure, but that's pretty that that usually, it's stored locally for,

prior to you collecting people's data. So making sure you get consent prior to them registering an account And they consent to your privacy policy, for example. I would say that's a good general first practice you could take, finalized

Yeah. I'm

termagaddin.com/ Really, the script should all be not Firing until the user clicks accept or until they click yes or okay.

So they would just accept on page, And that's when the script will be able to fire and load the YouTube script. Yeah. But when you're a website developer, basically, what you do is you Implement the code for the cookie consent banner, and then the cookie consent banner controls all the scripts. So it's not like you need to go through each and every single script usually or,

because all you would have to do File one complaint. I'm I'd imagine they'll come after them pretty hard.

here. And And I always like to share this example, which is that a lot of website owners think they don't share data that they collect. They're like, I don't share any of the data I collect. And I always asked like when you submit an inquiry on a contact form, when someone submits an inquiry on your contact page, do you receive an email in your inbox

and so forth. And I think for for website designers too, we're kind of out of the time where

Email address. And sure enough,

will not work if I deny the cookies? Because I denied it And then try to create an account, Normally. You know? So excited to talk about it. So, welcome. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for having us. Give us Just the the rundown of, who you are, what you do, all that good stuff. Sure. So I guess I'll start. My name is Donata, and I I am an attorney licensed in Illinois and a certified information privacy professional.

making a loss of revenue. And, really, GDPR compliance, Everybody thinks it's, like, really, really hard and really, really complex.

banners all over the place and most of them, if not none of them, they don't apply to me. And I'm wondering, like, I don't I don't want to see these if I don't there's no and I think Republic will start to see browser APIs

But, yeah, there will be some things that won't work, like videos won't load. You'll see a prompt, like, on our homepage, you'll have to accept and stuff like that.

So that's why you're seeing the cookie consent banner because, for example, Facebook ads will collect your IP address and device identifier,

Anytime that I post anything about Google Fonts, I get

Or cookies are delicious, and we like them, and you should keep them. And the answer option is accept or okay or whatever, and there's no decline and no no option.

or somebody you're asking you to delete their data and you don't respond to them or you say no. That's where most of the complaints come from. So if you have that top line button buttoned up,

You know, so you should have a compliant privacy policy See, that has all the GDPR disclosures.

It is there's no deny button necessary. So maybe that's a good motivating factor for people. And let's be real. I mean, even Google said they're they're preparing for, like, a cookie less world in the future. So, That's a

to track you using those ads. So they need your consent to track you via those ads, so that's why you're seeing them.

Absolutely necessary.

In addition, there are a lot of what we call placebo cookie consent banners out there where they don't actually do anything. So regardless on what you click on there, the scripts

They are to capture consent

you're taking customers from Europe and you're taking their money. So you do have something what to do with in Europe. So just because you're not Located there, if you are getting money from European customers, you are doing business with them. Right? That's a problem because Google Analytics is not GDPR compliant.

you have the user. If they're submitting data, they agree

where they accept nonessential cookies allowing you to put nonessential cookies on the user's browsers.

script. Yeah. That's used. So

Google Analytics was deemed noncompliant with GDPR DPR last year. Yeah. Google Analytics launched GA 4.

Dicing. Yeah. Up for interpretation.

I denied the cookie banner in, like, a fresh browser. And you

Now nobody's gonna take you

what's the cookie what are cookie laws, and and do Americans building websites need to to have these on their website? Yeah. So,

we're we're we're We're waiting it out before we give our official opinions. So just a general rule with Google where you try to look up you you know, you're trying to use their one of their services, and you try to look up what personal information it collects.

I feel like within the next 6 months, we'll get an answer as to GA 4. Personally, I think it is perfectly GDPR compliant.

We're still kinda waiting for things to kinda flush out.

Probably good to get on top of it rather than trying to like, okay. I don't need to deal with it. I don't need to worry about it because

And in some ways, it is, especially for larger firms.

prior to submitting data, Or capture consent like a cookie consent solution learn about our tool. They get a free license, and, yeah, I help them, educate their clients about policies

the nonessential scripts being utilized on your website and possibly remove anything Can you adjust

If somebody contacts you to delete their data or to access it, you should comply with that request and delete their data.

And you could potentially need a cookie consent banner. And having those things will prevent you from that huge GDPR

So

but you're just not being tracked by these particular scripts. But but you said, like, if you embed a YouTube video, you have to pop that up. So, like, would I, the developer, have to say, If they have not accepted the cookie consent, I can't embed a YouTube video in there? Not ex so there's a lot of third party consent solutions Out there where they have already done all the work behind the scenes so that if a user denies

well, I will know,

not substitute for an attorney's advice, But it's a great way to get started on just general knowledge of what you need to do. Yeah. I think there's 2 great routes to getting policies early on. Number 1, attorney. Great. If you can afford that, good for you. Congrats. Go that route. Nothing beats having your attorney do it. Number 2, generators. A good built generator a well built a good built A good build generate a well built generator, will help you identify the laws that apply to you, and then will adjust its questionnaire to make those respective disclosures and help you expedite The setup.

my data.

And you can read through that blog, and it has all of the factors of who each privacy law applies to. So I would read through that, See if I meet any of those factors. So, like, one of the factors could be makes $25,000,000 AI tools

I know that reality so much because I've started a handful of businesses, Termagadine included. And I know when getting going, it's

Well, as a business owner, I don't want people to feel like that about my company, so I'm not going to violate their privacy.

impressed. You go to the cookies.

Everybody's like, yo. But we don't use Google Fonts. It's awful. Like and then it's just like, well, do you know that? Like,

You know, maybe taking a little bit of a privacy focus won't be too much of a sacrifice. I'm just I'm just going through your personal website, Iowa passed a privacy law between when we connected and when we had this call. Iowa passed a privacy law, and California's CPRA Is are those different things? Is that because it's privacy policy versus cookies? That's right. Data that you submit is not related to cookies at all. So the cookie consent is just for cookies.

to embed you embed Calendly to book you for a consultation or something like that, You are actually sharing data with, But, really, what's happening here is there's several privacy laws that require you to capture consent

Yeah. Which their claim is it is, it is indeed GDPR compliant because it doesn't track users. So we're not giving our official opinion on that today.

which I think ultimately is gonna be something consumers are aware of.

consent provider that's based in the EU.

if we need a cookie consent solution or not, and if so, what type of cookie consent solution we need, But in the US, usually, you don't have to agree just By visiting your web the website, you are in agreement, at least when it comes to the terms. A general best practice is to indeed have that checkbox whenever people are submitting their data to agree to your terms in a separate checkbox to agree to the privacy policy. I'm sure everyone's probably nodding their head listening to this like, well, duh. But that is the best practice as it if you make it unselected by default and make it a required checkbox, I'm guessing you haven't watched the South Park episode on the human scent I've had, but prior to letting, like, scripts fire and put nonessential cookies on a user's browser. And I I get the you know, I get it. It's, like, kind of invasive, and not a lot of people fully understand it. But I feel, like, personally, like,

No.

Is there anything on your website that

And, Wes, I I agree that, you know, browsers the latest And and for the record, anyone who wants to judge me, I still like the Roboto font. So

about cookie consent banners so with a cookie consent banner, To comply with these privacy laws, you need to get consent

If you're out there wondering what kind of alternatives there are, there are Ackie is 1. A c k e e is a Privacy focused analytics. Fathom is a popular one as well. Yeah. They end up being, like, pretty all Fathom. Bare bones compared to Google Analytics, but they're they work and, you know, I don't know. Google Analytics overall, you can't necessarily rely on that information anyways given how many people are running blocking scripts in general nowadays anyways.

I know that was something that I hit really early on and I I had to contact a legal professional to Draft these for me.

privacy committee, member of the cybersecurity

My name is Hans.

After I found out it wasn't just me copying legal docs from other websites for clients, I was like, what do you do? And she's like, I write privacy policies with their law practice. I was like, oh, I just copy and paste those whenever my clients ask. So once we realized those 2 things, we kinda Yeah. Yeah. We kinda joined forces. That's the first It's a red flag, I think.

and I also keep policies updated,

So,

But yeah. Mhmm. I ran a web design and software development company in downtown Chicago,

Yeah. So I I help web designers, And therein lies just how Easily, we all share data in this day and age, which I always say it's not a bad thing at all. It's great to use third party tools to help you Run your business as efficiently as possible. It's just the fact that it needs to be disclosed these days,

Without feeling like they need to get a law degree to do so. And I guess before we get into it, since we are gonna be talking about, a lot of legal topics, I did wanna say we're not providing legal advice today. If you are looking for legal advice, talk to your attorney. Perfect.

What the hell is going on with all these cookie pop ups on all these websites? They're so annoying. And what happens when I click x on a cookie pop up and the website is working

turns out this was like an industry wide thing going on. And,

Yeah. I I have nothing to lead off with that. Like, She's the star one.

and they are from Termageddon.

if you have a company and you have users, Chances are you have to have a privacy policy and a terms of service. These are just the realities of the web at this stage in working in a business.

I'm also the president of Termageddon. So I'm the legal engineer behind all of the policy questions and the millions of variations that we have, or more in revenue. Well, I don't make that, so I don't need to worry about that.

Hey. You need a a terms of service and a privacy policy. These are are 2 things that just about,

And we'll be learning a little bit more about what they We do. And just in general, Wes and I get to pick their brains about some of the legal questions we have surrounding the web.

Today, we have Donata and Hans Skilrud,

On this

Friday supper club, we're gonna Talking about privacy policies, we're gonna be talking about, well, licenses, g licenses, GDPR, and all kinds of other legal challenges you may face when you have a business

Could you maybe give a rundown about Y'all seem like you really know the web, and and I think that's a a big differentiator Thank you. In this industry,

I I think

I'm the chair of the American Bar Association's it's kind of similar in a way.

So Yeah. My name is Scott Tolinski. I'm a developer from Denver, and with me as always is Wes, boss. I'm Wes, what's up, my man? Very excited to ask lot. That was really super impressive. So yeah. So we're actually Canada's great.

privacy and cybersecurity committee.

online. If anybody,

any business on the web needs to have, and maybe you don't have them or maybe you do and they're generic and they're not covering you fully

and went full time term again

A a good place to start would be something that a lot of people hit, especially when they start a business. They have customers. At some point,

somebody says,

I am the other cofounder of Termageddon. I'm better known these days as, Donata's husband.

This is

the Syntax Supper Club.

so buckle up and grab that old handle because this ride is going to get wild.

I sure hope you're hungry.

Welcome to syntax.

Hoo. I'm starving.

Wash those hands, pull up a chair, and secure that feed bag, because it's time to listen to Scott Tolinski and Wes Bos attempt to use human language to converse with and pick the brains of other developers. I thought there was gonna be food,