Big Deno Changes

back in the day,

so that Kind of interesting that I don't think there is a way to specify which is kinda interesting. So it. All the packages,

JavaScript runtimes and all of a sudden you just change one thing, whether that's No bun or dino instead of node in your site, and all your stuff ends up being faster because this new runtime is faster.

are Sort of charted it. We I I think we we sort of nicknamed it as a edge runtime or a worker runtime, In free credit, go to linode.comforward/syntax.

they will work in all of these runtimes.

meaning that You will try to build things

adding an event listener, you had to write it twice. You had to write it once For IE, and you had to run run it once for the rest of the browsers. And that was a that's kind of where we're at right now.

Hey. I'll take that all day. I I think we will eventually get there. I think people are building new modules now

Maybe it's already written in TypeScript. Right? So, like, now we can just utilize this core ecosystem of packages, we you just use TypeScript, right? TypeScript out of the box. No transformation. You have, If they're All things considered, You know, we're turning,

Or bun with node stuff, then, JavaScript runtimes have been getting this much airtime. Yeah. Yeah. This episode is sponsored by, 2 companies, one of which does not need to run or hey. I think that might just be the future. Hey. Where do I want this to output? Hey. I wanted this to output on the faster one. That one. Okay. Go. Pre preset e n v for JavaScript runtimes.

just to write some simple stuff, and I don't know if I'll want to write JavaScript without TypeScript Bun, what are these things, and how do they relate to JavaScript in the browser, Wes? JavaScript is

bun, you just use TypeScript out of the box. No transform. And then notice over here just kinda being like, oh, common JS and ASM. There's, where I don't think I would want to have my version npm colon at version whatever In every single file that I'm using, I would probably end up using the depth set TS. But it kind of means that, like, what we end up having is is, like, We're we're we had these 2 separate ecosystems, and that was always my problem with Dino in the 1st place is that I'm not gonna use Dino. So I got a I got a no platform with all these note packages. Yeah. I don't wanna have to re like, somebody's reinventing

again. When I do, I don't have a great time to the point where I like, alright, I'll set set up typescript and do all that whole rigmarole yeah in anything I'll transform it but now instead of doing the whole rigmarole and setting it up I'm probably just gonna use bonnardino Yeah. Big big issue. You know? And I don't hear any chatter about node supporting TypeScript out of the box, and maybe that's fine that they don't. But, like,

Man, what's the reason to use node? Yeah. Especially, it's slower. It's less compatible. It's, you know, it it's starting to feel like the old dog even though, like, What? Like, a year ago,

I gotta tell you that it's not a lot of fun to have to always transpile all of your code,

into DEPS.ts.

Hey there.

Then you could just go from 1 to the other with 0 0 guff.

Yeah. That's actually not a bad idea. So the one kinda Cool thing with Deno is that you don't have to npm install this thing ahead of time. You simply just say npm colon the name of the package and then at,

version ranges.

p n p m tricks to cache them or anything like that, which is pretty interesting to me. You know what's interesting to me, Wes, Is that if you do a command find on this blog post for the word bun,

code or getting into ASTs or any of that stuff, it would be kind of fun for someone

a lot of those hurdles of working with Internet Explorer. So you gotta wonder if, like, Now all of a sudden, we're gonna have a utility pop up that's, like, makes it easy to make it hot. So I don't think that that will exist. But here's a little, an interesting little side project project. If those of you who out there looking in transforming some people out there even, like, don't necessarily even get How Node. Js relates to for a full archive of all of our shows, file and then utilizing that deps as dependencies.ts that we've had in nodeland. And to me, this opens up it. In the same way that we'll kinda talk about BUN in a second here, but it makes these JavaScript server runtimes almost hot swappable. Not quite,

they have something where you can pay an expert to do certain things. Companies need that. So a bit nicer with TypeScript in Node? I you have to think that there's issues. First of all, they likely use some proprietary APIs that are part of Node like f s dot read file or read file sync or, has a web server built into it. And The biggest one of them all

full text symbol search across the third party library of Deno code. So it's kinda cool. You could search. It looks like a Versus Code plug in that you'll be able to to go through. I'm not sure what the benefit of this would be over, what Versus Code already does, but

enums.

types

sometimes

2 other little announcements from Dino is they're supporting enterprise users, which is good because

It's kinda interesting to to find packages, maybe. Yeah. But it looks like,

Companies will not want to buy into a specific tech unless there's

Svelte could cite to run as Deno or BUN in production. Obviously, that's not the dev server, but,

all of these same packages. Oh, this is the express for Dino. This is the this for Dino, and it's like, well, we already have that. It already works fine.

Your import you're pointing your imports to a URL, it. Because we don't like that. We don't wanna give them any free promotion here. We are you know, I think that's kinda weird. Do you think that's weird? I don't know about like, it. To just say that there's been chatter and competition's good, but, like, not say what the competition is or anything. I don't know. I found that to be kinda odd. But,

As, like, a worse experience necessarily

and that URL will then, like, load up the code essentially at that URL, and it caches it on the first it. Run it so that way you don't have an NPM. You don't have a packages that JSON and an install script. I find that kind of odd,

They're loading scripts essentially off of GitHub, and that's kind of how it's always been where you're just pointing Yeah. As opposed to your giant diagram microphone. But it's gotta sound like like 90% is good or 80% is good. It sounded like 10% is good. Yeah. Yeah. They're good they're good for live, but, yeah, if you want that fidelity in the recording and nothing beats a big mic. Alright. Dino,

because what happens is is that people end up just making a deps.ts

I mean, if we're swapping out package dot JSON for a depths dot ts, I'd kinda take that. I'm kinda into it because you can have comments. Comments. Right. It. Yeah. You get comments. You can Yeah. Do JavaScript in there. And so that that part of it doesn't feel totally off to me in terms of, like,

you know, JavaScript in the browser.

the internal HTTP server, it takes, again, takes the the engine out of Chrome, Where are or what engine each of our, We have kids singing all the time. Oh, Bruno. Talk about

Node. Js, BUN,

Thousands of requests. It can send a response as fast as possible.

speed essentially. Yeah. For free. And that could that could both speed up your, to those who'd be like, well, like, who cares? I'll just build a faster one. So every language, The version that you want.

a web server is a very low level thing. It can handle

All of those things need to be as fast as it. Possible. And that's why those HTTP servers are written in the lower level languages,

So

Bun is written in Zig, just a language,

If that means that the issue p server is faster than anyone out there, then that may be a reason why you wanna go ahead. It might make Even like like, imagine a 20% faster web server that could

in the low level language. So node is written in c, I believe.

And you you still might go ahead and use, like, an HTTP server like Express or Fastify or something. But all of those things, Expressify, See, man, I'm I'm standing for the 1st time ever recording, and I feel like I

who are, are visiting your website. So it's pretty setting as well. I I I gotta wonder about Node in 2022.

And Deno has written in Rust, and they are able to Maybe not. I'm not sure what the the holdup would be because they have full and legacy. I I even wonder, like, are we gonna see

and then they surface them to mere mortals like us via JavaScript So we can just use them. Right?

Oh, no. It says they can deliver this. Deno's HTTP server is getting overhauled. It. Yeah. Happy to report that this is the fastest JavaScript web server ever built. Well, I think that's pretty exciting because Head on over to syntax.fm

it. Basically, they're saying their goal is to make make Deno the fastest JavaScript runtime. And they're gonna be faster than all these on other unnamed ones because it's built on a v in Rust and can deliver Deno's HTTP

server.

but we refuse to name our competition

It. So in this blog post, there's a whole section called the fastest JavaScript runtime, in which here you'd think they would even use the word bun. But instead, they say, we know there's been a lot of chatter recently about runtime speed. Competition is good for the ecosystem, who's creating bun, had made, like, a whole thing for now.

and they just announced a couple days ago some big changes ahead for And you might think of JavaScript as being just run-in the browser. However, JavaScript obviously runs on the server side as well via Node.

is compatibility

now they're coming out and saying, okay. Well,

in Node. Js land. So if you wanna use Express or,

And

on npm. Like, love it or hate it,

JavaScript environments are gonna run-in. So Deno has been a very big one. It's made by Ryan Dahl. He's the guy who made Node. Js,

We now have the ability to at least choose And that's really exciting because dependencies.

I And what are some other popular Node. Js packages? Literally, all of them. The entirety of the Node ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to be able to use them, you sort of hit up a couple Oh, no, there would be, because at 5 would give you the latest version of 5.

So people are really paying attention. It comes with TypeScript support right out of the box, It looks like they've generated some sort of, like, GUI literally enterprise that you can buy. Like, you can have office They work in a web worker. They work in Node. They work in Deno. They work in a CloudFlare worker, maybe even work in a browser. And that's obviously not possible. And sometimes you need specific APIs. Maybe you could write adapters, but I think we'll probably get there. Just like right now, like, we don't use Chrome specific APIs or A little bit, I guess. But,

yeah. We didn't watch Encanto. Yeah. We didn't watch Encanto. It's a good one. It's a good one. Watch that.

it's from,

Oh,

baby.

returning definitely the the rocket boosters on

Man, I I gotta say it's exciting to me because I don't have to be the one working on sheets.

Or drop a review if you like this show.

and don't forget to subscribe in your podcast player

the, JavaScript runtime world. And, it. Yeah. Who who says, like, how could we support TypeScript without vendoring it? TypeScript changes too fast.

Node, BUN, or Deno, and I get to reap the benefits of it. So Yeah. Sounds great to me. Awesome. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in. We'll catch you on Friday. Peace. Peace.

But, yeah, man, I gotta I gotta wonder, And I bet with time, we'll sort of be in a spot where a hot swappable. Great great way to put it. Yeah. It's funny because some people were like, yeah. Well, jQuery. You know, it's up with Jake or jQuery, like, it. Like, one of the reasons why people like jQuery so much is because it removed

and Node. Js and saying,

to the other options.

like, next year at this time, if we're looking at bun, Deno,

you can just author TypeScript and they're faster. It's like, what where's the downside? I guess the downside is compatibility

which feels weird to say, but I I I mean, if you're looking as it is right now, you got 2 faster dogs. You got 2 dogs with more more features, and then you have this The slower older dot it's not even slow. Node is not slow. No. But it is relative I don't know what song that is, but I like it. What's that? We don't talk about Bruno.

Node is the least

use one of their images and just get up and running. But if you want to be able to put Deno on a server somewhere So you could host your Deno based website. You could totally put that on it because they just give you straight access to the Linux server. You can log in. You can use curl or whatever to install Deno, and you are up and running. Linode is an awesome cloud host. If you wanna get $100

I I feel the energy. I get it, Scott. Yeah. Yeah. It's really nice. I bounce around. I like yeah. I I move. I you know, do some, like, shimmy shakes here. Yeah. I feel like I need the,

What is Deno ahead of, like, what we're we're talking about right now? Because It. And this is like a game changer. If you like to see how things happen to both debug them, but to understand, it. You hate looking at just a bunch of flowcharts and graphs to see how your users are using your website, and you actually want to see in action like you're doing Almost like you're doing testing with users in the room. You get access to all of these features and more with

So let's talk big picture, Node. Js, Deno,

I have the,

Let's talk about Linode as well. If you you wanna put Deno on a server, you could put Deno on Linode.

Sign up today and get 14 days for free.

Like the NFL one. And now that I have I have 2 DBXs, I'm I'm curious if I could get it up and running. I plugged it in once, and it sounded awful. And I just, like, hold it. Just small diagram microphones.

That's gonna get you a $100 in free credit. Thank you, Linode, for sponsoring. Sick.

the Britney mic now, though, because I I don't wanna Stay in front of the mic. I wanna move around. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That actually that would be very fun. Definitely both just have Lab mics, and they're walking around. It's like we're we're doing the podcast, just pacing around our offices.

where they're at, I'll have to paw through this whole whole,

authoring experience they are using

And it's this this is from July of this year, so it's modern, and it's up to date where There's still people talking. The let the latest comment on it was 10 hours ago, so, people are talking about it. But who knows If this is something that will will come about or

the runtimes a ton lately with Edge functions and fun and all that. So big news.

where they're basically like, well, you can, you can always transpile it, And that got, like, a 1,000,000,000 thumbs downs. But then now it seems like there's a new issue as of July 13th this year. So what? We're 4 years later from Mateo But, like, if we could get hot swappable Like, we use Node. I've never had a lot of concern with Node, but Here we have Dino saying bun wasn't, you know I mean, bun existed, but it was what it is. Flower a year ago. It was what? It. Just flour flour there's no results found. So, Dino is like, we're not going to be talking about bun. Right? But then if you go We don't talk about banno,

everything node does is open. All their meetings, everything is is open, so maybe tune in to one of their next. Yeah. It's funny. So there I found, like, a GitHub issue from 2018 And do you know sorry. Not every language. Every implementation

Put it in the show notes. I'll put it in the show notes here.

Hey. Excited about this. This this dropped or pay, that's why, like, Node. Js has inside of your codebase, interfaces, a Encanto.

Big news. Who would ever thought enticing of all of these options, your, essentially, your code,

CSD.

It. And, we're gonna be talking all about what these are, what these mean for you, and what this means for the web, and who is using Deno. My name is Scott Talinski. I'm a developer from Denver, Colorado. And with me as always is

Monday. Monday. Monday.

Open wide dev fans, get ready to stuff your face with JavaScript, CSS, node modules, barbecue tips, get workflows, breakdancing, soft skill, web development, the hastiest,

air. I guess it is in the air. One of which is in the air, the other which runs on servers.

LogRockets scrubbable video replay features. And these things are essentially as it. A package dot JSON and then loading everything directly from that, which is, like, at that point, why don't you just make a package dot JSON? But I get it. You know? Yeah. And and this actually, this new way of doing it is still kind of using URLs. It's just being a special URL, or it's just npm colon and then the package and version number. And you have to specify the version number in this import, meaning that if you want to not have a bunch of long imports with version numbers and all of your files, you're probably gonna end up doing the depths dot ts file approach where you're running at once, which is just kind of like I mean, it's like, what if we had packaged it at JSON, but it was just a TS file? And honestly,

the craziest,

Wes Bos.

One of these is Linode LogRocket is the perfect place to see how your errors and exceptions happen and how users are using your website with scribble video replays.

that runs on servers, and one of them is LogRocket, which flies in the air airtime, runtime. Got it? Bingo.

What browser are you on? What are you doing to get this error to cause? What does your console say? You don't have to have any of that it with LogRocket. So check it out at logrocket.comforward/syntax.

Welcome to Syntax. On this Monday, it's a treat. We're gonna be talking about Deno and the changes coming to Deno in terms of big changes was the name of their blog post. Big changes ahead for Deno.

in action, and I I like to debug a lot. When I'm debugging issues, I hate having to send that message.

the tastiest web development treats coming again hot. Here is Wes Barracuda

Boss and Scott

incredible Did you see the bun? Jared Jared,

almost full node support already. So

It's pretty exciting to see this type of stuff coming down the way. And I also wonder like, there was some chatter on on Twitter being like, do you think Node should have

But Is there something they can do to make

and there is an adapter Deno in an adapter bun. So you could output your to do those typescript kind of processes, and if I can use Xenia now. Yeah.

That's the big gap. And there there is lots of stuff you can install, but none of it is There's that, and then they also are announcing a, npm is is kind of what we're we're here to stay with. Right? And if you want to be able to share packages and whatnot, It's actually a really good spot just to play with. Right? And so do you wanna explain, like, what they were doing before this? Yeah. Before this, it was just kind of APIs.

have runners for these things? Yeah. I mean, you know, that that's that's another option is just just run vite server dotjs

under the hood for you. So that because that's another option. It's just At 5.1 would give you the latest version of, Like 5.1.9 if it was out. So, yeah, well, it will work that way. But this you don't have to install them. There's no you just run it and Deno will cache it at people wanna be able to install and distribute packages Like, the tooling needs to be a bit easier.

or dot ts, and then it It will do all the compiling and running and restarting So Linode offers lots of like get up and going packages if you want to host Node or PHP or even a database. Linode will allow you to,

Yeah. Like,

version names of bun,

He had made some sort of graph that showed, like, how fast different versions of bun was.

and it was so funny. They were all, like, different types of buns. Like, one was, like, bow. One was and I was like, this is the cutest darn thing in the whole world to have all the different version names after different types of buns.

That is great. So Adena was saying they're gonna support up to 80, 90% of NPM packages, which is Jeez. Amazing. I'm assuming the ones that won't be supported are the ones that have, like the ability to search for symbols, which are Functions and variables and and definitions and typed,

he had all the different To create either a an extension for Versus code or a website that copy and paste that just translates package.json

like, compile, like, compile time None of it's perfect. You always got to install TypeScript and tsconfig, with Node and NPM, A TypeScript loader or compiler built into it. And, like, again, we've went down this thing with jQuery. We thought the browser should have jQuery built in.

search through your codebase. Well, sec. I think this is fascinating.

So I'm not sure.

that allow you to At a at a layer, so there is no

but it allows you to They build these web servers any of the util dot stuff is built into Node. So what Deno has done, and this is not part of the announcement, they have Just replicated the entire node API so that a lot of those will work.

And that's not the only environment. Now we're starting to see a lot more JavaScript environments pop up. We have a whole episode on alternative JavaScript environments, and A big one of those was Deno, which is They're talking about that. Although all the node How much you're paying for your server as well as, as the the end result for people

where just like you have to run

Your browser app in many different browsers, and those all use their own JavaScript engines.

it's safe to say that we're now in a world and it's it's too much right now. So something's gonna happen for sure. I mean, I love the SvelteKit approach where you have these different adapters,

It it it does a lot of, like, the lower level stuff in Rust, which allows it to be nice and fast and and whatnot. And it. Instead of doing proprietary Deno APIs, they they try to stick to web standards as much as possible. So Deno is just another JavaScript runtime. We also saw BUN JS come out again, and