Potluck - Next vs Gatsby × Headless CMS × Vue.js × Is Ruby on Rails still good? × More!

which they're saying is 20 times faster build times. I'm not sure how they

they're this long. I don't know what people like. 6 minutes. Yeah.

because I saw a Deno, like, 2 days ago that was an Apollo API anything, I have to create a table. I Scott create forms. I gotta create all the

Now that Overcast has intro skipping, it'd be nice if they were uniform in length. I didn't know that Overcast added this, but there's no Pocket cast has it too, and it's sick.

The way he talks about the history of caffeine, the way he talks about, Gosh, man. I'm getting a hard name today. You got Yeah. Anan. I got U verse.

My questions are Episode 1 wasn't very good anyway, so good job. It was it was fantastic.

Next question is from John.

Yeah.

So I don't think it's all that that big of a deal. And I would be totally I know I just said I would always pick Express,

So everything is is all based on not only teaching you the skills, but really building practical animations that you're going to build in your application. If you want practical animations for React, check it out at level up tutorials What matters is that you're following some sort of a system that allows you to write developers, and, like, the business manager and then the marketing person. So, like, we didn't have project managers checking in. So you were your own project manager. You went to all the meetings. You ESLint out all the emails. You did all the contacts.

with how Next. Js you know, if you have 10,000 user accounts, you're gonna have 10,000 the normal stuff, but it also includes an admin navigation and a different layout container, maybe. Right? You'll get 14 days for free. LogRocket gives you a session replay that allows you to see your bugs in action while they're happening. You can click and drag. If you like to click and drag and see these things happen, you can see the user click that thing and have your whole website However, this this book,

doesn't mean that they're not very good. It's just that there's different hotness in the industry right now. It's probably not worth quitting your job

That'd be pretty Scott. You tell the whole thing here. That'd be pretty funny. Yeah. You could have a dynamic service that automatically inserted

using React JS. Like, I just look at it like something like Express. I always reach for Express.

CMS where that data lives

do dynamic

eject from create React app. Yeah. Like, what are the reasons you might wanna eject from create react app? The one of the biggest ones was no SaaS support, but I think that's that's been added now.

And so what happens where you're doing more than just a little bit of, like, templates. It seems like they're trying to do a little bit more React y kind of things with it. Oh, it's like like you can put variables in your HTML string, and they will be rerendered

a multithreaded And then we got, like, another question that's almost the same question. So this is from my Michelle Keems.

like a server rendered, What is your favorite new tab page? And this is this is a good one. I actually just went through this myself. My favorite new tab page is about blank, which is just absolutely nothing.

Oh, really? Yeah. It's so good. Yeah. It's very good.

for And then you if you want anything to be dynamic, you have to do that conference calls with people where they've just got their Android earbuds in, and they're sitting in, like, a glass box or something like that. And the audio is is just awful. Right? So this is cool. Check it out. It's at mattstauffer, m a t t s t a u f f e r, .com. Just go to his blog. It'll be there. I'll put a link in the show notes as well. Cool. I have a book audiobook that I'm going to, when the reality is this stuff will always be changing, and you JS the developer I don't want that stuff just showing up. No. Even if I use, like, a different profile, and and I don't want any of that. So just blank new page. I know some people have, like, motivational quotes or their to do list or whatever, but I've found over the years that just nothing works best. You know what's nice is in Firefox, vanilla JavaScript that allows you to figure out which part of the DOM has been updated.

And, it would be so easy if the CMS could do that for you. Really, the benefits of using a CMS or a back end is that it just takes care of all that stuff.

at Gatsby really heading in the direction where it is

No. Nothing works in Canada. Okay. So

all that good stuff, the stuff that we know and love. So check it out at logrocket.comforward/zendags.

Course. It's available at study Wes development.comforward/

or are going to be, like invest time becoming a better communicator

is not hot anymore and is deprecated and is old and is, is not all that useful.

I am not good with words. I'm just gonna say that. I'm I'm, you know, I can talk on a podcast, but I'm not a good writer, and I'm I'm certainly not an elegant,

And then at a certain point, maybe you won't be transpiling So Scott of questions today. We just went through. We haven't done we do potluck once a month, and we went through today. And there was just tons of good ones in there, so we just kept adding them and adding them. So let's get right into it. You all grab the first one? Sure. 1st one is from Salvatore, we are doing a potluck episode today. We've got some awesome It was just different. What do you mean by a wrapper? So let's say you have forward slash posts Yes. And then you have forward slash posts forward slash 3. Yeah. And then your your forward slash post would show you all of your Bos, and forward slash posts forward slash 3, it would show you post number 3. That's not a good context because I wouldn't use a wrapper for that. So let's think about this. Like, you have an let's say you have an admin layout. Right? Your admin layout includes

Bossman.

turn into a giant tomato. I don't know how they did that, but you'll be able to find out and see the network Wes, the error logs, the Redux store, all that and more. And it works with all of the platforms that you know and love, React, Angular, just JavaScript, Ember, Vue, Redux.

I wonder.

writing a

like a customer account page for

just because I'm I'm much more on the web standards train. Things have been moving really well for the last couple Yarn. Yeah. Totally.

he was, like, not stoked on it. And then it turns out Meteor or GraphQL

It's craft this book crafted good. Yeah. No. I mean, this book is is fantastic.

contract. It has been written by a commercial lawyer. So if you just need, like, a good contract, that's been written by, an actual lawyer that comes with it. So there's all kinds of stuff in here, questionnaires, checklists, SEO stuff.

and, I would still consider Rails to be an exceedingly modern platform overall and a a great platform. Every time I worked on Rails, I had a really nice time using it. So I think you'd be getting a a lot of,

like, puppet it and Mhmm. Like, be able to scrape it and download the endpoints

good learning building sites with Ruby on Rails. I don't think you need to to worry too much about that. Yeah. I was I was,

Scott's got a $2,000 out there for it. Is there probably something better out there? Probably.

mentioned that he'd help if I ever needed to work on a client project. What are your thoughts on doing freelance work with someone you work with at your job? Okay. Well, is your job at agency? Because that is a little hairy there if you're, you know, skimming some projects on the side with some agency members. That said, I've done it myself, and I don't really think it's a huge problem.

It's just a sort of helpful editing and debugging

How Caffeine Created the Modern World by Michael ESLint. Now this author is really super good. If you've read any of his other books, I've really enjoyed some of his work.

and then

and when do you customize the config? But, yeah, I I my thoughts are that you can write amazing CSS with any of these. I use styled components primarily because I just like the way it works, and I like the ease of use of everything.

really good Express is, like, the dominant one, and there's so many resources

Hello there. I see Kyle Matthews, who created Gatsby, And it looks like that this does something similar to that. So pretty cool. I would definitely reach for this. It is pretty cool. Yeah. I'm gonna check it out just to just to goof around with it. I use, like, handlebars or some of those templating languages.

you're comfortable with Vue and Gridsum, I wouldn't just jump ship just for Gatsby because, grid sum gives you most of that good stuff, Node to mention it's very fast. So I don't think you'd be gaining a whole lot, and you'd spend a lot of time having to invest in learning React, not to mention that, but learning the Gatsby way of doing things on top of that. I think you're getting wordsmith.

fairly a lot in it over the past few months, and I really like Meteor as a platform.

So I would very clearly just say to a lot of my clients, like, look. I can't I'm not gonna reply to these emails. I'm trying to get work done. And, like, it's important that you communicate with them. But at the end of the day, you're the developer. And if you need to get stuff done on time, you need to aggressively in the future, which is pretty cool.

shout out shout out to Missive. Alright. Next question is

Next question from Bryce. Boys, my team is currently in the design phase of a rewrite of our biggest product ever. We are switching from a Pearl Yes. I'm curious JS this. So Scott spent all this time converting his platform to a NexJazz. Yes. A lot of time. And then, Yeah. So I don't know. We're we're gonna do some new intros. We got some really funny ideas for some some new intros. Maybe we'll try to keep them the same length, but if it's funny, then maybe we'll go longer or shorter. So Yeah. We'll specify. We should we should tell whoever's creating it. Okay. Make it 30 seconds or whatever Yeah. Wes seconds. Yeah. 15, whatever. Yeah. But thank you, John. Yeah. Thank you. So it's dope that Overcast added that skipping feature, but you don't wanna skip this is a 40 year old CakePHP Freelancing

for a full archive of all of our shows. And don't forget to subscribe in your podcast player or drop a review if you like this show.

Yeah. I I I think you hit the nail on the head. So Next. Wes, by default, is server rendered, meaning that when you visit a web page, manage your own time because project managers, there's certainly lots of good ones out there, but there's in my experience, I've encountered much more

Personally, if you're a Vue fan and,

I am pretty

antidote there. Yeah. Anc Anc Anc

and there's just too much awesome in the world for me Yeah. To do everything. And it's not like I don't like Svelte. It's just that I've not used it before, and that's all I have. Yeah. Okay. Next question is from Jonathan s. I freelance on the side as well as have a 9 to 5. The other dev I work with

how the the development is going. So I think,

Is this another question about Pnpm. Yes? Hey, Wes and Scott. I recently started an internship on my one of my favorite tech companies these are all good tools that you're talking about. Ember, Ruby on Rails, these are some of the, like, I think, some of the best tools in our industry for creating web apps and websites, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. The fact that we don't talk about these things on our podcast or you don't necessarily hear about them all that often you can just add it to your babel config, and it will fold it into to what they have. So, yeah, I would just say try not to. And if you really, really, really need to, you probably will reach for one of these more batteries included

why you can save so much time with LogRocket.

so, like, forward slash, whatever. My my app page would have a route that would be then take me to the tutorials layout route. And then inside of tutorials layout, I would add to have several more routes. And then inside of there, I have a couple more routes, and I do that throughout the site whether it's for admin or whatever.

Head on over to syntax.fm

super tight timelines

How many big projects do you go to that end up having, like, a 100 issues and, you know, 20 poll requests? And that, to me, is an interesting sign of of, that will be like a full on service to do it for you. If you use Stripe or Braintree, that's going to handle your payments. You need a database component to all of this, which answers some of the other parts of this question, which would be, how do you check if a person is up to date? Well, chances are you have a user. You have a user record in your database,

need to use the tools that you're like, the tools are obviously important. We've talked about them all this show, but recommended by Pocket,

6 minute long intros. I feel like that's probably pretty good. Like, we could we could tell a little bit of our life story in 6 minutes before the podcast starts every time. Oh, no. I think they're talking about, like, the, like, the, like, warp under syntax. No. No. They are. No. They are. Yeah. That's what they're talking about. Talking about us shooting the Scott because that's genuine content. But what I'm I'm talking about is, like, what if our life stories were just part of that intro?

and it's super fast. The interface is super responsive, and I was like I was just, like, using this app that they had built. It they just rolled out. Like, they had, like, an old one for a long time. But I was like, this is where this is on 2 tech, two pieces of tech, Java and Angular, that people probably wouldn't say are hot, but this is an awesome experience using this thing.

So I could see the writing on the wall that maybe this framework wasn't gonna be around forever and wanting to think about moving over. So what I did is I maintained establishes pages Yeah. Node. It looks interesting. I think this is one of those ones that you wanna check out a little bit, and it does work with web components. So I, But at the end of the day, like I said, you can certainly And that's something you need to be on top of if that is your role because you can't always push back on that stuff if nobody else is going to be doing it. That said, if you do have project managers and it's a little bit larger of an agency,

So there's there's that. I I took my wife's old camera and hooked it up, and it looks freaking amazing.

running multiple processes at once. Like, maybe they deploy it to but at the same time, I know it's used by some big timers such as Airbnb and Shopify.

Where with a Next Wes site, the server can render that information because it has that cookie when it's building the site. Right? It's building the site Wes the user hits the site.

Yeah. You could.

and the way I would have done it before JS you have a component that's your admin layout, and there are several routes inside of there, including the navigation. But with Next. Js, what you do is you'd have an admin layout component that would have a children prop, and then any admin page would have to be wrapped in that admin layout component.

web developers have short attention spans, so something else becomes hot. Mhmm. And, people think that that other thing on to React because of the momentum it has in our industry, both in terms of, like, what do people want from me in terms of training courses JS well as, like, there's so many resources out there

because I just can't live without that sweet nesting. I love that nesting.

are doing that. Maybe they are that is like Next. Js, Gatsby, whatever is out there. Totally. Yeah. 100% agree.

frameworks which is pretty cool. I'm just taking a look at it. You can get it at cssspice.com.

then, you know, you might be expected to not interact with clients very often. And that, to me, is sweet spot for being able to get a lot of dev done. That said, you do need some of that experience. I became a much better I don't wanna say salesperson because it's I wasn't doing any sales, but I I became a much better speaker talking to clients and like Next. Js that expect you to do everything

So I think that a lot of people place too much weight on the tech stack

Hi, guys. I'm relatively new to React and primarily learning the create react app way. When you go for the create react app approach Wes building an application

some agencies

Yeah. Well, it's it's just backticks. Right? So it's it's everything you're used to from writing vanilla JavaScript except it's Next question we have here is from Justin.

Node a day? With the advanced new c news features in CSS, do you guys really think it is worthy to use all those? Well, the thing about CSS preprocessors JS that you're not shipping them. It's like a preprocessor. Right? So there's really no harm. I still reach for then you wouldn't get to hear us talk about

SaaS or or Stylus all that much anymore

that way. And I think Next. Js is doing a great job because they've approached it in the opposite way You could just use JSX. I guess it is its own project, but I've never heard of anyone using JSX outside of React world. So it looks like this lit html does do that. You can use it in view. Yeah. You Node to write in view. Alright. Next question here comes from Daniel Bossman.

What do you think of lit html?

Thanks for a great show, and keep the good spirit going. I'm usually walking my dog at night listening to you, and people stare because I laugh out loud I am not a fan of the routing where you have 1 route page, where every single route of your entire application is listed in the routes page. I I I would think of that as being, like, how we would have done it, like, React router 3 or something. But me, personally, I'm more of a fan of nesting routes. So I have my route set up, and then let's say on,

where your data lives and and where your data is being displayed. Mhmm. So, like, for example, one of I talked to the folks at Sanity, and one of their biggest customers is, Tim Hortons and Burger King. There's this company that owns them all, and I'm not sure if I was supposed to say that or not, but whatever. I'm gonna

so I would assume that it would be easy to port them over if they've not already been been moved over. So, yeah, I like that. I would say no. Not probably not worth it. Yeah. You might even be frustrated. Like I said, the, like, the image stuff is so much better on good. So I'm sorry, Gethi. I love you. But, yeah. Yeah. Because you instead of you just have a g hyphen image, you pass in the path, and then if you give it something like a width, then it just generates that. You don't have to do the whole query thing. So you're saying loading an image, you shouldn't have to write a, what, 40 lines of GraphQL? Yeah. I'm right. Yes. Yes. I am saying that, and, and and Scott that one right. So shout out to them. Yeah. Absolutely.

anything. So that's sort of how I look at it, and I don't necessarily but we are talking about getting some new intros Deno. So it would be awesome if they were all the same length. Yeah. We should do we should specify and, enjoy. Thanks so much to Kyle for sponsoring.

the

why what the current forecast is in Denver and in Toronto. Sure. Just get that over with. Yeah. That would be funny.

I do a lot of vanilla JavaScript, and I think my tip would be you have to aggressively

yeah. No. I I would have no issue with somebody picking Happy over Express. I think

but I think of them as just making the future when you're building the application. And at build time, they will they will generate, though. There there's Gatsby is still way ahead in in terms of what the static site generation looks like, but they're certainly like, they are getting a little bit closer to each other in in what they can do. So it would be cool to see some sort of Gatsby server at some point where

The admin forms, the validations,

missing there in terms of, like, sanitization, Yeah, man. I I once saw Toby, who JS, like, the creator of Shopify.

My reasons why I was getting off Meteor in the 1st place is because you could see the progression over so many years of less and less work being put into it of no fault of the Meteor community themselves, Just the investment being put into Meteor was, you know, not happening.

just less fun to work in and, in my mind,

Oh, this is tough because I don't maybe Scott will have something to say on this, but, like, I don't know if the feature set of

things in Gatsby like user accounts.

But for some reason, our tech lead decided on Happy for the node framework. I ESLint a little time with Happy, and it seems cool, but I'm not sure about its longevity unless there's other things that that were hurting. But I don't think a a tech stack is very rarely,

forms and all that stuff. And every single time I create a new

this, is there's not as JS many, like, weird, obscure middlewares

I I would say, not anymore. But at one point, I would say it was close.

but a lot of it, you you can. CSS color functions and and whatever. So I think of, like there's this really good plug in now that is sort of like the babble of CSS. It's called post CSS preset env, and you just tell it what browsers you Yarn supporting, and it will figure out which things it needs to transpile and which things it doesn't need to.

if you sign up for the year.

I guess, like, another reason would be, like, oh, I wanna use that new what's the new question mark thing in objects? Oh, optional chaining.

It's Scott. Sick last name, Bossman.

spot in this thing, so, obviously, people are enjoying it. He's got all these pretty cool reviews of people who have taken it. So if you're thinking like, okay. I'm a web developer. I'd like to make a little bit of extra cash, or I'd like to go totally freelance myself and and go out on my own, this is a course that's going to help you through that, teach you the the ins and outs, the things that you need to know to be a freelance web developer. So what does it come with? Well, this this bundle comes with the Freelancing and Beyond ebook, the Wes Design and Beyond ebook, this massive I think it's, like, 8,000 word blog post about how to get that thing is generated quickly on the server and then served up to whoever's visiting the website.

when compared to more established frameworks like Express. How do you feel about Happy, but what I didn't realize is that it was part of Polymer. Oh, yeah. When people recommended it to me, I was like, well, I'm not using Polymer, but they're like, no. It runs on its own. Yeah. Just cool. Like, imagine JSX.

my daily up and monthly ups and downs of the investments that we have. Yeah. And my bank didn't, like, have that. So I wrote a scraper that would log in for me and download a CSV of the data, and then I have that running every day. And then what I'm able to do is go back, and now I have that that data over time anyways. Have you seen Personal Capital? Does that work in Canada? No. Nothing works in Canada. Okay. Personal Capital JS, like, does exactly that. It's fantastic.

that your clients will be able to actually understand rather than some janky form that you threw together.

quite a bit of freelance work with agencies,

routing in those aspects.

Yeah. I I agree as well. I think in most cases, you probably won't have to and then picked up as a React application when you visit the website. Yes. So okay. So this is the question that we, in, like, a like, a half an hour means that it was obviously built with single page application in mind. So just personal, engine at the Scott. So nothing wrong. I I would definitely say, like, yeah, that would be weird if if they took some, like, brand new

animations with Framer Motion, where we build some really great stuff. The cool thing about this course is we teach you, you know, topic, topic, topic, and then we do a couple of projects. So we do a modal accordion, topic, topic, topic. Then we teach you a slide in menu, topic, topic, and then we do something practical.

it's tough because, like, normally, I'd say no. Like, pick your pick your stack and and just go ahead and use that because it's so cool.

Sanity with Gatsby? Gatsby is a force right now. They've got tons of people.

Live.

7 or 8 different places, and having a sort of decoupled

And largely, React router was built for you to be able to do that. The problem is when you get into applications But, you know, to each their own.

Word. Cool.

within your own agency and and what things are like there.

Remember when we talked to ATN about Missive? And Missive is a email client we both use, and that's built on backbone, you know, easy to read, nothing, man. I I love I love Svelte. It's it's fantastic. So I would check it out. I think it it it's a great thing to, I mean, like, your reasons are totally valid, and I totally agree with you that the the industry momentum is certainly in React's favor

smallest Node Bos I've seen to do some very powerful stuff. So

it's weird that Gatsby is, like, the thing, and it's only built in questions around Gatsby and Next and a new tab, installed components, and Vue and jQuery and Nuxt and Next and some really good JavaScript questions coming at us today.

in my thing. And and in most cases, Gatsby and Next. Js, they will allow you to just

I think it's totally valid. I think, you know, the the depends on how the work came about and what your role is at the agency because

It's beginner friendly. If you're intermediate, it'll help you brush up, fill in the holes here or there. You just go through it a lot faster than if you were a beginner. Check it out. Use a coupon code syntax for $10 off beginner javascript.com.

server or something like that, and then they build multiple pages at once, that would be awesome for, like I know some people run stores on Gatsby that have 100,000 products or something like that. I can only imagine that the build for that would be very slow and he went through, like, both all of the, like, budgets. So if you only have $100 to spend or if you've got, like, an old SLR and and generated out to HTML files, which then are rehydrated you probably would build those middlewares yourself.

with dot inner HTML.

And that's

what does it have to do? Nothing. It has to do nothing different because I love Svelte. I think it's fantastic.

And it connects to a lot of the services that you might already be using, such as, you know, Century, Rollbar, New Relic, Jira, Zendesk, I'm really happy with where the community is going, and I'm a big fan of the platform. So the fact that future picture has been clarified for me, I I'm more than happy to stay on Meteor now. So that's really just it.

super stressed out, can you talk a little bit about why you decided to switch back from METEOR after putting in all the effort to convert Vercel up tots to Next. Wes. Man, this is like the Next. Yes. Show. This is great. I'm about to start a new full stack, and I was considering next until until I heard you switch back. PS, love both of you guys. You're all fantastic. Thank you.

So this, like, lit html,

queries and mutations. I have to do all that myself.

Ruby is a dying language,

just really customize beyond what's there, then that's when you go for beyond create react app. That said, I'm probably not reaching for create react app for too many of my projects to go

and then it goes, oh, I gotta go figure out if there's any of these left, and it goes off and and comes back. So scraper for my bank the other day

It's expressive. It's

I would be very happy. Yeah. Here's what here's

if that is the climate of the company. If you start skimming stuff on the side here, then that might get a little bit interesting with interpersonal relationships at your business if they find out. That said, if it's a larger agency or the expectation is that many people are doing freelance work on the side and that you can hunt for your own projects, I see no problem with that. But it is I think it's a matter of the temperature I really enjoyed this book. And if you consume a lot of caffeine like I do, then it's definitely a worthwhile listen. And if you're a history person, it's a very worthwhile listen. A lot of good history stuff in here. Sweet.

this is what Scott does. You've got the Elgato

layer or or anything like that. Like, that that takes a lot of work as well where these things sort of just get you up and running. So a headless CMS makes a lot of sense, especially in a website where you're just have data. Well, it's just like saying it's like saying, well, what's the version? What's the deal with using React? Couldn't I just write the framework myself? Yeah. I I think you nailed it JS that as long whatever you're doing, just make sure you're using some sort of system, Please stop. Anyways yeah. So Firefox has all these different things. You just take them all off, and, I highly recommend it. It's good. Just, somebody recommended this to me at Node point because

coming out with a lot of input on how Gatsby can be used for web applications.

email calendar, to do ESLint, whatever. Make all of those expectations known, and it will help you out greatly So not to say that you cannot do it with Gatsby because you absolutely can. User account based sites, all that stuff JS just going to be dynamic and not statically generated.

CSS

sick pick here, and this is the book called Caffeine,

install that Node one has wanted to update forever, and it's just a nightmare. Sounds like it's a decent stack. Yeah. Yeah. Rails power so many of the most popular sites on the Internet still,

Sick last name,

Interesting. And a lot of these, like, Gatsby plug ins, they're just Node plug ins. They're just webpack loaders.

Am I missing the point? Okay. You are missing the point because what it is is it makes all that super easy. It makes it so you don't have to write the code. Tried to code a form that updates data? It sucks. I have my whole level of tutorials, whole admin dashboard JS that. I mean, it's all custom you know, he he takes sort of, like, an idea, like,

And then when building REST APIs came around, these frameworks like Happy and Koa Yeah. And not to mention the entire got bought, and it's looking like that truck is moving again. So why didn't you like Next. Js for your platform? Okay. So let me preface this by saying I I love Next. Js. I really like it. I've worked template tags in JavaScript, but also sort of like JSX.

bugs and issues that are gonna occur from doing such a major migration to a different platform. So it was definitely a sunk cost thing where I was holding on to the Next. Js branch for a little while saying like, you know what? I spent all this time on it. Maybe I should keep it. But at the end of the day, Meteor has been seeing a ton of advancements.

for beforehand I'm a dev that recently joined an agency for the first time. What hot tips do you have for living in Devon in the agency life, especially around time management, time estimation, and dealing with clients' peace? tree structure to what your what the DOM looks like. And then when data changes, the virtual DOM will update itself, and then it will know which pieces of the actual DOM to update.

So that's typically why we say that. We're very aware if you are, like, a pro Gatsby user, if you're, like, super Gatsby person and you don't need user pages to be server side generated, you could, by all means, do any of that stuff with Gatsby. It it's just all about, I think, maybe the right fit for each platform. And me, personally, I probably reach for something like Next. Js for only those reasons specifically.

Anecdote.

Right? What is it in Next. Js? I think it's like the underscore app dotjs or something. Yeah. So you have 1 page or 1 component that's essentially a wrapper in those platforms. Where with mine, it was much more the React router way of doing things, deeply nested routes.

And Gatsby by default is And I think, like, a lot of people are a little bit afraid to, like, use global because they are bad. So, like, go nuts. Do your do your base stuff first. So fonts and sizes and, So the whole idea behind Next question is from Brandon Next.

I I breezed through this thing at 2 x, and I really, really enjoyed it. So if you're an Audible subscriber, it gets a little messy because what you end up creating is a bunch of wrappers. So instead of having fine with the Meteor. And the fact that Meteor was going to see new investment and see new growth and see new modifications and things like that, then it became,

Yeah. Alright. Node more. Last question is from Andrew Waffle.

Next question is from Daniel Bro.

the entire

way less organized.

Vue.

Alright. Let's move on to some sick picks now. I'm going to sick pick a blog post from Matt Stauffer.

still dreaming of what the component's gonna look like. I just start throwing string CSS into everything.

Yeah. That's great. Maybe I will start using that. I will say the one thing I do love about these style components and emotion and all these things is that it doesn't make you think of names and classes for absolutely everything. Like like, the big no no is don't use

And also when escaping it. Which main configurations are you grabbing? All right. In my mind, if you're really needing to get into the babel config, you Node to do some server side rendering, you're needing to, interfaces, to a route, AKA, a webhook, organization, .comforward/pro.

Fine. Just because, like, I I wanted to, like, I wanted to see over time, and I wanted to be able to chart

should Google that extensible

By default, is a server side generated, meaning that there it's all generated for that reason, I don't think that Gatsby's a great they they do say, like, of course, you can do static websites with us, but it seems like it's sort of, like, after the fact, which for some websites is is totally fine, but I certainly would not

I was having

from like, if you're doing live streaming or videos or even, like, even just wanna have, like, a good quality webcam,

well, this caffeine, how could it, you know, how how is it shaped us as human beings and how are we addicted to it? And it makes sort of no judgments upon you. He really takes the stance of my opinion, like the the curious person without being sort of, like, overbearing

I think, a chance to quit your job, especially something that is so modern, like, amber and Ruby on Earth. You're not talking like,

Yeah. And, you know, it depends on the agency size. It, like, really, to me, personally, depends on the size. Because if it's a small agency, happy seems to be on it. I mean, I have not used it personally, but I I've heard good things, and it seems like it's really nice. So,

we don't have anything good here. It's all awful. So but it's okay. I'm a developer. I can fix my own problems. So I Wes just, like, looking through how it how it's working and trying to figure out, like, what are the API endpoints to log in and what are the API endpoints to download this data. And I was like, oh, this thing is built in Angular and Java Spring, and it was, like, the most wicked app ever. Like, it uses JWT, the other the other point that I have here is that, like, a headless CMS sort of decouples of Viewland.

legal

from Besswas.

Oh, this is this is a good one. So I did my beginner JavaScript course. Go to beginner JavaScript Scott. It's a fun exercise heavy approach to learning modern JavaScript from scratch.

expressing why I made these choices. And, This book is crafted

a meteor branch in the Next. Js branch side by side, which allowed me to do a lot of really cool things. And it was really just like easy merge from one to the other.

And things like phone calls and emails and whatever, that would just eat up your actual time.

We didn't have project managers at my 1st agency specifically because there was designers, just to Node. I don't wanna say issues, but I was I had to take advantage of things like wrapping components and render props more than I wanted to. At the end of the day, I ran them side by side, and I didn't see a huge benefit to 1 or the other.

Now LogRocket is the best place to visualize the errors and bugs that are happening on your site. You wanna check it out logrocket.comforward/syntax.

Yeah. It does it does talk specifically about how it doesn't use the virtual DOM. And it's efficient.

to do those those aspects.

I primarily use CSS variables Node. But if I was building for a site that needed to support older versions of IE, I would be very distraught without having some sort of a variable system in my CSS.

the amount of things you can get up and running really quickly with that stack and have it be beautiful and,

meaning that if you just change 1 page, your build will be faster. And I think Netlify does that as well, actually. But yeah. So it's I I probably wouldn't reach for it now, but I bet that will change in the future as well. Yeah. It's something to keep an eye on it at the very least.

but if I were to, like, being, like, thrown into a project where it uses happy, rally against phone calls and meetings.

I'm going to plug my latest course that's gonna be out on leap day, February 29th. It's going to be on Framer Motion, creating really awesome

because there's no they're they're working on this thing at Gatsby be called incremental builds, You get lifetime updates, which is really cool. I appreciate Wes people do that. I do that with my course as well Wes you just, like, you bought it once, you get the the new stuff that was added to it. So check it out. Studywebdevelopment.comforward/freelancing,

it all just comes on comes down to how you write applications, and this is the way that our site's been designed from day 1. So if I was building a new application from day 1 here, I might start with Next. Js. But the fact that I've already had this application written this specific way makes it very difficult for me to migrate there. Awesome.

the plug ins so dang good.

and it was, like, maybe the most elegant,

And there's there's a little bit on the ESLint, meaning, like like, let's say you have a lot of people are talking about using Yatsby for, like, online stores. Yep. But, like, if there's something that's dynamic like stock, how much stock is left, and you wanna display how many are left for a specific size, you need to load the page and then go ahead and then fetch that data and then update the page. And that's where you sometimes get the a little spinner on on page load because it has to load entirely, now as much as possible. Yeah. Some things you can't polyfill or or transpile, But we're in a bit of a interesting spot where

in this fantastic JavaScript. Yeah. Yeah. So,

I'd much rather be on something like React and Node. Js or Express in my day to day coding. Do you think it's worth staying in the position? And

go you. Okay.

I don't know. I Wes Oh. I feel like j JC JC would put his last name, but I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like he would do that.

Yeah. Okay. Next question. This one's from Mateusz. Hey, guys. Huge congrats on the show. I've been listening since episode 2, and it's fantastic. Thank you, Mateusz.

React. I wonder if they ever will, like, roll out, like, a a view Gatsby or something like that. Dude, I I would just think they would take over grid zone. Because if you go to grid zone's website, they got some juice, man. I mean, it JS definitely pretty sweet. And to be honest Yeah. They really solved some of the issues in a better way than Gatsby. Like, the image stuff is better in Gritsum in my mind. So I I think Gridsum has some really great ideas.

in my mind, a good idea to just stay with what we have rather than go through the headache of doing this migration and then having to deal with the inevitable So you have that admin layout. So now each of your admin pages,

Is there a reason the Hasty Tree intros are 2 and a half times the length of normal episodes?

to my database.

framework out there. But Happy and I'm gonna loop Koa in with this as well Yarn certainly fantastic options for it. I think the only thing you might lose out on Yeah. When that data changes very much like React will do. And that's good because I see that all time with vanilla JavaScript. People are like, hey. I put a variable into the string, and I changed the variable, and it didn't update string. And it's like, well, yeah, once once it hits a string, it doesn't know about those variables and I do a lot of templating vanilla JavaScript with just back ticks.

He posted their, like, stats for their unit testing. Mhmm. And, like, they've for every line of Node, I think they have 2 lines of unit tests, which is nuts. Like like, I think that is the only way you could have confidence. It's such a huge code base. Anyways, could you please explain the relevance of Ruby and Ruby on Rails we'll have in 2020 going forward? Do you think it's worth learning for new developers? Thank you, by the way. Listen to podcast. Good. So we we see questions like this a lot where something's hot for a while,

Alright.

This seems like it's a little bit more I don't know. This seems pretty cool.

it as Express has. But if you are building, like, a huge product,

and web applications?

to

of, like, talking about underwear or something like that. So, yeah, there's there's obviously no reason. We don't have reason behind much on this podcast,

It is not like React comes with so much magic compared to the others, but I'm uncertain to when it is time to escape the whole create React app approach.

React ecosystem over that matter, over grid sum? This is mostly a small medium ish side projects that connect to a headless CMS. Thanks.

I think of them not as

Besswas asks, what's the deal with headless CMSs and CMSs?

Peace.

live. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. I use it. I would like that because, like, I'm so good at skipping the, like, 14 teen minutes of Joe Rogan intros for each of you to use it instead of React in personal and future developments? Oh, that's a a good question. So I've I've never tried Svelte, so I don't know. But you get all the amazing benefits of Gatsby. Like, sometimes I'm almost tempted just to run Gatsby dev on a server or something like that. You know? But, I'm not sure what what the the approach is. They did just roll out this, like, Gatsby builds,

I don't know the difference between the word extensible and extendable. So,

And and it's great. He just, like, went over, like, the differences and pictures of lighting and not lighting and and things like that, and it's all just in Node spot. So if you ever want to know how do I get better, even, I think, even if you're just, like, a a remote worker, I think having, like, a good quality audio and webcam makes such a difference. So I've been on so many awful

After listening to several of your podcast, you talk about Gatsby. It doesn't seem like you agree and would go for Next. Js instead. In your opinion, is it still the same, or is the development from what I've read, it says, Express is closer to Node and less opinionated. So maybe Happy does some stuff for you that Express doesn't. It seems like a good choice either way.

what what is the benefit of this, Scott? I'm just looking at it right now. I forget. This seems more like a framework

our ad reads because, get this. If not, I'm so sorry. Maybe find it some other way. I'm not advocating for anything, but maybe.

Jeez.

a REST API

are small enough that every single person is expected to be hunting for projects. And if a project comes into you, it would be ethical for you to send that project onto your managers

and should I push it? So Happy has been around for a while. Happy came out, what, maybe, like, 6 years ago. I'm trying to look right now. Yeah. The thing with Happy was that Express was always, like, a server rendered

from project managers that want you to get everything done much faster and and quicker.

seems to be alive and well with ESLint html. I I have not used Polymer in a little bit. So, this was exciting to see. Well, actually because I had heard of lit html, on a folder basis, and it was going to be essentially a lot less work to get us

element selectors. Meaning, like, don't say h two and style all of your h twos, and don't don't say paragraph tag. And but with style components, you can because It's all Scott. It's scoped to that component. And you know there's, like, 1 paragraph tag in that component, so that's totally fine. Yeah. I like that too. Alright. Next question is from Rob. He links to lit html.polymerproject.org.

routing stuff. I'd probably have to see an example, but that's good to good to hear that. Yeah. It's it's hard to express because,

here's the stack. And what does that mean for you? And what are the technical aspects of these things? And, what do you need to know without giving you too much? And how does this person like like, if I was able to interact with the client a little bit more, I was able to better craft to the back end CMS for whatever I was doing for them. So it really depends on the agency side. I would recommend upping your your communication skills overall you end up having to write, here's a wrapper, here's a wrapper, here's a wrapper. All your components are wrapping, whatever, And it was just a different way of doing things. So that said it wasn't worse.

He put together

Yeah? Yeah. Definitely. So statically generated pages for each of those experiences, not to mention whatever you have, the header being different. There's just not a whole lot of good ways for that to happen, so then what you end up having is dynamic bits.

Other features, I don't really use functions and stuff like that, but I think they're they're definitely there's definitely still a place in the use for them to make your life easier within writing your CSS.

Yeah. It's it's just like statically generated, meaning that it's all done at build time before you push it out to the website.

it'd be it'd be nice to work in. Yeah. Yeah. I I always get the feeling sometimes people think that I don't like things because I don't use them,

Bos or auto prefixer or post CSS. I I still almost always reach for one of those if I'm writing CSS in that style components myself I hope I got that okay. I don't know. I'm sorry, Salvatore. Nailed it.

Shamelessly plug, Like, the it's very little of it is actually React specific, Yeah. Just don't get sued. Make sure everything is is okay. Wes. That's another legal aspect of it as well.

So what what is the difference between from time to time. Yeah. I do that too. Say SSG means server side generated. Yes. So, like, that's a Gatsby.

Why? Because

webcam. Thank you very much. Me. Yes.

via and you store some sort of next to each other. And for the most part, Next. Js worked really nicely. I used their API routes to of which then you're getting into all these custom configs. So I'm going to primarily reach for something like Gatsby Next. Js or, in my case, Meteor into production. Not because create react app isn't great, but because I think that, typically, if I'm doing another project, like a big project, I'm gonna want things like either static generation or server side rendering,

is the rendering gets kind of messy where every page is getting a full rerender no matter what, sort of like Gatsby. Right? When you go to a new page, every page has a full new rerender because that's just how the the layout system works within Gatsby and Next. You have this 1 page that's a wrapper.

Next question from JC. Is this RJC? is

you're gonna be expected to interact with clients a lot more.

Next question is from Chris f. Hey, Scott and Wes. I hopped on the view train from jQuery Land, and I am loving next Nuxt and Gridsum. So Nuxt and Gridsum are the next and Gatsby

yeah, Polymer Polymer project Wes people can access content based on a monthly subscription. Okay? So monthly subscription content. Watch out, Scott. Don't answer this. They're coming for me. Okay.

where you can React and I think Vue and a lot of the these places have this idea of the virtual dom is that they they have the real DOM, which is your your page, and then they have a virtual DOM, which is in memory. They they keep a sort of a similar

nesting with a nesting with a nesting, so the basics are you need a payment processor that handles reoccurring payments or you need a service like something like Recurly,

a bunch of templates,

it really depends on what your needs are. Because with a static site or an SSG, it's really difficult if you have user accounts. You have to imagine that you cannot to able to be extended.

And that's when Tiny bought Meteor, the service, whether that's Stripe or Braintree, sends a message just enough with with Gridsum Nuxed in,

Interesting. Not sure I totally understand all the nested

Sorry. Hashtag sorry. I'm no. I'm I'm very,

sort of came around and said, like, hey. It's a little easier to build REST APIs Chrome extension, Optional chaining. So, like, let's say you you needed to add that to your your webpack config, and you Scott you you wanna try that out. Although it's in Chrome now, which is really cool, but, obviously, not every browser has it, so you might have to escape for that. I think I would go as far to say don't ever eject from the create react app. That's so much homework that you have to do to babysit this thing. You get 1,000,000 files. You can't go you can't ever un un eject. Well, you can unaject. You just have to scrap the thing and copy paste your files into your old one or into a new create react app. But I wouldn't recommend it. I personally have not written any more than a couple lines of babble or webpack config

video and audio

SSG

Alright. Let's talk about our next sponsor, which is Kyle Prinsloo's

And so I was able to run these things side by side and really see them in action And then because it's a string, you can just copy and paste it directly into your style component if you do want to merge or move it there anyway. So, I find that to be a really handy tool within styled components.

server side render, extendable. Extensible? 4 k HDMI input. Yeah. But it's not an old SLR. Okay. It's a Sony mirrorless.

way to put data into HTML, the template out data. And then when that data changes, it will be rerendered Yeah. Without the. We we should explain what or virtual DOM is real quick.

Extendable. Oh, why not just use the word expendable? If you know why you would use the word extensible Vercel extendable, let me know because it cited them as synonyms.

I'm thinking about doing a boot camp that teaches Ruby on Rails for the back end. I hear a lot that

I hear you guys talk about them all the time, Sanity, KeyStone, Prisma. I'm not sure what they're good for. To me, it just seems like a UI Yeah. I do it for prototyping, especially when I'm just, like, I haven't used it myself personally, but just looking at their GitHub, it well, the last commit was 5 days ago. There's 12,000 stars on it. There is 9 issues and 2 poll requests. That is fantastic.

Save 25% and it does it all in this spiffy interface in the agency life.

reach for by default, everything is server generated, but now they have this idea of server side generated static pages. So if there are some pages in your application that wanna be statically generated, then you just specify that

we referred to when we were talking about answering some of that other stuff later on in the episode because, specifically, What are your thoughts on CSS preprocessors the user accounts? We'll we'll talk about that in another question. But I'm very excited to use Svelte on more things. In fact, I'm planning on doing a new Svelte course for Vercel up that I'm thinking about right now with Meteor subscribe or gain access is all done through the payment processor itself,

Scott, However, I am hearing good things about Gatsby. Would you say that it is worth learning Gatsby and the whole So this lit HTML looks very similar to

So I could imagine the CSS being nice. Yeah. It's basically the object syntax without an object.

or

React is so fast versus, like, some like, in my vanilla JavaScript course, sometimes I say, like, hey. We just Scott rerender this entire to do list because Wes there's Node nothing built into

Here's what I here's what I like about happy.

And it became

Yeah. That's nice, actually. I don't like writing the object syntax.

and they're not actually doing document dot create element. They're they're just grabbing a huge string of HTML and dumping that into an element, tool that that has come out. That's pretty nifty to be added in there. That Wes Design and Beyond is a new ebook that got added as well. There's a professional And, also, the fact that I was able to,

You you could, but it just saves you time. Yeah. And, also, like,

back end to Node.

like, totally different way of writing CSS like Sass was,

reach for it a new thing that was added JS a CSS spice

and will most likely stay that way. I can't imagine

framework.

Alright. That's it. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you on Monday.

Wes I'm using Ember. Js and Ruby on Rails. I love the team. People are so nice, but I'm not super passionate about the stack.

role onto that user.

okay. This question actually goes along with another one that we're gonna talk about a little bit later with the Next. Js Vercel Gatsby stuff because a lot of that stuff still applies. Specifically, with Meteor and Svelte,

And then you can do your service to fire off a email saying, hey. Your payment was successful, whatever.

and the message to keep your users up to date with the payment processor.

Also a fan that your videos rock, you pay I pay for your content. Thank you, so much, Salvatore. Okay. So the answer to this question But I'm I'm pretty happy with it. What about you? Yeah. I mean, for me, for to to use Svelte on one of my own projects,

on where to start with either Next JS or Gatsby? How do I check if the person is up to date with payments? Any of your help would be greatly

do you get the benefits of a static site if you have

your server and your database isn't going to be managing the timing of any of this, but the timing of when people, But isn't that what my application is? It seems like it would be easier to have my front end talk to my back end to talk to the database rather than learning how each CMS wants to do things.

Or they send a message saying, hey. Past due. Or they send a message saying, hey. This account has been canceled.

Beautiful. We'll we'll talk about the next Vercel Gatsby stuff in a a future question, but thanks for sending that in. Next one was from Anan.

And what happens is when the subscription

It's all about webhooks That cookie is there for their authentication, whatever. They're able to verify that users authenticated, and then the server responds, the fully server rendered site with that user data. So you have to imagine that some of those things Wes you're getting to user accounts, you have to think about what you need to be present there for the the server side generated bit and what you need to be dynamic.

Any recommendations

This may be a crazy question, but I need to build a similar system to level up tutorials Uvarus.

So, really,

appreciated.

Argenati.

charges or fails to charge, I should say, or or does anything or is successful, Out of Ann Arbor, Michigan by way of Denver, Colorado, here is Scott Tolinski, who spent most of his career doing this.

their reoccurring payment system, and your database JS just kept up to date when their messages come in. So no need to worry about, setting up timers or or checking things monthly or whatever.

highlights. By the way, that, like, recommended, I hate that on everything. Like, my Google Home has that, and it, like I turned that off. Yeah. Yeah. Can you turn off news on Google Home? Because it just shows me, like, the most awful stuff that's going on in the world, and my kids just, like, accidentally tap it. And they're like, bombs Yarn dropped on every country in the world. I know. I know. Layton figured out how to get YouTube going on the Google Home screen. Oh, man. Just like, please stop.

I used to have to install a Chrome extension to even get this, which is weird Yeah. Because I I don't even want, like, your recent or most visited, This is cool. Like, it's a it's a lightweight with these things, and that's not that's not all they do. But Express was very much

they do have the top sites and highlights pop up. Right? Yeah. But those are both accordions, and they remember your position. So I just I just hide both of those accordions or or collapse them. So now when I create a new tab, it's essentially just a blank page, with a Google bar if you need to search in there. Although, I never seem to use that because I just search in the URL by itself. Yeah. That's my favorite. Firefox does a great job. They just let you uncheck all the boxes. So they have web search, top sites,

especially because, when I record tutorials, Anyways, like, that data like, you think of any company that has a bunch of data, where is that data being pulled into? Well, probably the iPhone app, the Android app pulled into the the, like, the boards. When you're ordering and you're looking at the menu, it's pull being pulled into there. Obviously, on the website, it's being pulled in, in store kiosks. Like, a lot of times, people have data that needs to be pulled in

With me, as always, is mister Scott Tolinski. How are you doing today, Scott? Hey.

we clapped, and when I put my hands down, I did so too aggressively, and it ripped both of the headphone Yeah. I wanna, I'm gonna rewrite my own website in Svelte.

It's back with his freelancing course.

headphones out of my ears and out of the jack. So I was, like, struggling. Missed your whole intro. I hope it was awesome. Oh, man. I'm sure it was. It's one of my best. One of my best. Today, we are sponsored by 2 awesome companies. First 1 is LogRocket, which does JavaScript session replay for your application. And second 1 is Kyle Prinsloo.

If you're just tuning in, freelancing. So this is everything you need to master freelancing. Kyle just told me he just sold his 2000th

Doing good, man. I just behind the scenes here it's a little behind the scenes when we do our we do a clap to sync the audio. Yeah. Yeah. We do a 123 clap, and it's always off because Wes uses Bluetooth headphones when there's latency. But,

We'll talk about the both of them partway through the episode.

You're listening to Syntax, the podcast with the tastiest web development treats out there. Strap yourself in and get ready. Here is Scott Talinski and Wes Bos. I can hear your stomach grumbling. It's time for the potluck.

Welcome to Syntax. This is the tastiest podcast around about web development.

some people will go bananas and make, like, a new component for the paragraph, for the unordered list, for the list item, and for a button inside of that thing. And then all of a sudden, you got, like, 6 different components. So what I do is I'll just create a component for that thing that I'm styling, and I'll sort of, like, eyeball and say, like, ah, this is this is like a this is a one thing. This is a component.

some text in it and it has an unordered list and and a list item,

and that div has,

Oh. Oh, like just like ESLint, you mean? It's like inline styles Yeah. With straight up string CSS.

as a prop on a component.

I need to take this unordered ESLint, and I wanna be able to reuse this somewhere else, then I'll just refactor it out into its own component. And I won't really stress all that much out about it. Don't go bananas on creating a new style component for absolutely everything because that that seems hard, and that seems like, I don't know, I I always just found myself being able to to do it much easier. So Node. Totally. That's kinda where I go. There's there's no, like, real best practice or efficient way. You'll certainly hear people spout opinions and write huge medium blog posts on either side, but who cares at the end of the day as long as you feel confident in the approach that you're taking. Do you use the CSS prop in the style components?

background colors, all of that sort of, like, base stuff, go ahead and do that and then go go component by component. And the other thing that I do is that, like, if I've got a div

And then I'll just use descendant selectors inside of that. So maybe I'll grab the div that wraps the entire component. And then inside of that, I'll use my paragraph selector, list item selector, unordered list selector, button selector. And then if I find myself saying, extend the one. So if you need to add something specific like server side styled components, is important, and it's not just tied to a website. And it's not just tied to a a single application someone's using. Word.

Is that when you're doing, like, nested stuff? It's when you just want to write some string CSS

I haven't. But when I do need to write inline CSS, I just you'd use, like, the object syntax.

not necessarily the driest code of all time, but write code that is efficient, does what it needs to be, and is updatable

Yeah. And come on. Okay. So this question is CSS Vercel CSS power my GraphQL server, which it didn't feel as nice as my Meteor one because my Meteor one was just like, here's a standard Vercel, where with the API routes, you had to think about it a little bit differently, serverless functions every single time they connect, being a serverless function JS we talked about in the the last video. It was just a little bit different. Right? So those aspects were all fine, but the the big rub for me came Sign up to become a Vercel up pro.

try to keep stuff as minimal as possible, at least for me. I'll it works well for me. It doesn't overwhelm me. I have too many distractions

CSS, SCSS, or style components, or emotion, or any of this stuff, it's all going to allow you to write quality CSS.

would be I I do my sort of global styles first.

Which one is Bos practice in quotes

that really follows sort of the same sort of principles. I largely think about things and components now anyways, so it's all very component based in my mind.

already. I'm good enough at distracting myself. I don't need Firefox the versioning,

Vercel styled components. When you are developing a React or Next JS application, which styling method do you use and why? to your website with a message that says, okay. Customer number, whatever, payment successful.

whether that's BEM and you you figure that out on your own or or whether that's styled components where you create a new component for that. So my approach I've said this before, but my approach to writing CSS in a React application

oh, it's sort of a trend. We talk about this with the bookmarks as well. Just, What does Svelte need

and, extendable and all those those wonderful things. So if I'm running CSS or SCSS, I'm always using something like BEM over a system that I have established myself

or the most efficient way of going about it? Okay. There's no best practice here. So, you can write excellent CSS using webcam. $3,000 just in general judgy of people who consume a lot of caffeine, such as myself. And it really this book, it's not the its intention isn't to make you drink less coffee or to consume less caffeine, but it is there to make you consider it. And so I had a great time listening to this book. It was 2 minutes. If you have an Audible subscription, it's free.

to step in and be like, hey. You know what? Let's actually distract you a little bit more. You know, I had to I had to work at that. So alright. Next question is from